Slow Acceleration with Low RPM Launch

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by carma143

I was testing if there were better ways to accelerate from a standstill than feathering the clutch, because it ever so slightly wears out several components.

Maybe it's me being overly sensitive, but it sounds like you already have some sort of grudge towards me.

Alright, that makes more sense. You should be able to rev it up to 2-3000 and feather it out VERY quickly, but not popping it. From the time the clutch starts grabbing to the time it's fully engaged and you can mash the throttle should be half a second. That will give you a very abrupt, but relatively smooth take-off.

It sounds like what you need to do is go to an empty road or parking lot and just practice this over and over and over until you can do it smoothly. It isn't hard once you get the hang of it. Some people just have more trouble coordinating their left and right feet for this thing than others. As someone else suggested, it might be a good idea to recruit a friend who drives stick to critique you and tell you what you need to do differently.

Sorry if I was a bit bitchy in my initial post. It really sounded to me like you just were being lazy about it the way you had worded it.

[Wafflejuice]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Alright, that makes more sense. You should be able to rev it up to 2-3000 and feather it out VERY quickly, but not popping it. From the time the clutch starts grabbing to the time it's fully engaged and you can mash the throttle should be half a second. That will give you a very abrupt, but relatively smooth take-off.

It sounds like what you need to do is go to an empty road or parking lot and just practice this over and over and over until you can do it smoothly. It isn't hard once you get the hang of it. Some people just have more trouble coordinating their left and right feet for this thing than others. As someone else suggested, it might be a good idea to recruit a friend who drives stick to critique you and tell you what you need to do differently.

Sorry if I was a bit bitchy in my initial post. It really sounded to me like you just were being lazy about it the way you had worded it.

This.

When I first got my car, I tried to take off at 1000rpm. Ended up stalling more than anything. 2500-3000. No problems. Still jerky at times though, I think I let out the clutch too fast..

[Fastbrew]

Also as Stang said - a quick blip of the throttle and then a fast but controlled release gets it moving well. I like to blip to 4K, let it come down to 3K then dump the clutch and put the hammer down.

[aznatama]

Originally Posted by carma143

...
I was testing if there were better ways to accelerate from a standstill than feathering the clutch, because it ever so slightly wears out several components.
...

That's why a clutch is called a wear component. It's supposed to allow slight slippage for smooth engagement/acceleration. This is essentially what a TQ converter does in an automatic. If you don't slip the clutch, you shock the other parts more, which are not wear components.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Fastbrew

Also as Stang said - a quick blip of the throttle and then a fast but controlled release gets it moving well. I like to blip to 4K, let it come down to 3K then dump the clutch and put the hammer down.

Dumping the clutch at 3k every launch hmm

These cars are able to be rolled on by a blip to 2k or so and catching it on the down, rolling on the gas...

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by carma143

I was testing if there were better ways to accelerate from a standstill than feathering the clutch, because it ever so slightly wears out several components.

Manual pulling away basic principle
- engage 1st gear with the handbrake on.
- lift the clutch slowly until you can just feel the car starting to pull against the handbrake
- release handbrake
- immediately feed in the throttle & slowly feed out the clutch

this will keep the clutch slip to a minimum & allow you to pull away reasonably briskly. It's a little more difficult on the BRZ because the clutch is slightly funky for feel & bite position. But even with nerve damage in my left leg so it doesn't move properly/as expected I can pull away with the minimum of fuss.

For a faster normal start give your self about 1500-1750 rpm & pre-empt the bite point with the handbrake release.

For a very quick straight launch bring the revs to a stable 4k rpm. The release handbrake, slam your right foot flat too the floor & jump off the clutch at the same time. Racing launch (this is brutal kiddies and will break your car if the tyres don't slip!) is the same except you delay the clutch a fraction & then side step it

These latter two shift the slip wear from clutch to the tyres but they also put much more stress on the drive train mounting system as well as the 'box & diff' internals.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

Manual pulling away basic principle
- engage 1st gear with the handbrake on.
- lift the clutch slowly until you can just feel the car starting to pull against the handbrake
- release handbrake
- immediately feed in the throttle & slowly feed out the clutch

this will keep the clutch slip to a minimum & allow you to pull away reasonably briskly. It's a little more difficult on the BRZ because the clutch is slightly funky for feel & bite position. But even with nerve damage in my left leg so it doesn't move properly/as expected I can pull away with the minimum of fuss.

For a faster normal start give your self about 1500-1750 rpm & pre-empt the bite point with the handbrake release.

For a very quick straight launch bring the revs to a stable 4k rpm. The release handbrake, slam your right foot flat too the floor & jump off the clutch at the same time. Racing launch (this is brutal kiddies and will break your car if the tyres don't slip!) is the same except you delay the clutch a fraction & then side step it

These latter two shift the slip wear from clutch to the tyres but they also put much more stress on the drive train mounting system as well as the 'box & diff' internals.

No offense mate but using the handbrake at all is bad practice and recommending that to newbies is a surefire way for them to develop bad habits.

Teach them about the clutch biting point instead

[Koa]

Here's an excerpt from an earlier post of mine

The hand-brake method of stopping (and conversely starting) on a hill can be completely done without if you practice feeling out what is called the clutch biting point. This is the point in which the clutch begins to become engaged.

Tutorial 1 - Master feeling out the biting point


1. Find a hill that is not too steep and in an area where you can be stopped upon for long periods of time.

2. Position and stop the car on the hill using your foot brake.

3. With your clutch pedal pressed in, put the car in first gear while holding the car with your foot brake.

4. WITHOUT RELEASING YOUR FOOT BRAKE, slowly begin releasing the clutch pedal until you start to feel the clutch 'biting'- you'll feel the RPMs drop as if you're about to kill it and feel the drivetrain tensing up. Push the clutch pedal in after you find this point.

5. Repeat step 4 until you are confident of your feeling for the biting point.

--

Tutorial 2 - Getting comfortable with using the clutch biting point to prevent the car from rolling backwards on an incline

Before you begin, make sure you are comfortable with being able to feel and bite the clutch.

1. Position and stop the car on a hill with your foot on the brake, in first gear, with the clutch pedal pressed in.

2. Let the clutch out just enough to get to the biting point, but not far enough to where the RPMs begin to drop

3. Release the foot brake. If done right, you'll still be stopped and not sliding backwards.

4.Rinse and repeat until comfortable

Hope this helps

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Koa

No offense mate but using the handbrake at all is bad practice and recommending that to newbies is a surefire way for them to develop bad habits.

Teach them about the clutch biting point instead

So everyone taught to drive in the UK is being taught to do it wrong?

There are several good reasons to use the handbrake, the most noticeable of which is to prevent the car from rolling in an uncontrolled manner.

EDIT: You've just posted how to fail your UK driving test in one east step!

[Koa]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

So everyone taught to drive in the UK is being taught to do it wrong?

There are several good reasons to use the handbrake, the most noticeable of which is to prevent the car from rolling in an uncontrolled manner.

See my above post. I've been driving manuals all my life and never had to use one. Best practices is to get comfortable without it. Being familiar with the clutch biting point is essential to never having to worry about rolling back on a hill start.

I live in Seattle, Washington with nothing but hills and Prius autos zooming right up to your bumper at stop lights.

P.S give me a brake ( ), it's not rocket science to use the handbrake on a hill in your silly UK driving test. Funky euros.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Koa

See my above post. I've been driving manuals all my life and never had to use one. Best practices is to get comfortable without it. Being familiar with the clutch biting point is essential to never having to worry about rolling back on a hill start.

I live in Seattle, Washington with nothing but hills and Prius autos zooming right up to your bumper at stop lights.

Yeah it's a fast track to fail your UK driving test!

[Koa]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

Yeah it's a fast track to fail your UK driving test!

whatever crutch helps you drive is fine. Just trying to show those there are easier, more predictable ways without depending on another system to keep them from rolling backwards.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Koa

whatever crutch helps you drive is fine. Just trying to show those there are easier, more predictable ways without depending on another system to keep them from rolling backwards.

The difference between the foot brake and hand brake method is the predictability & reliability of the handbrake method which is not subject to as many coordination problems or forward rolling.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

The difference between the foot brake and hand brake method is the predictability & reliability of the foot brake method which is not subject to as many coordination problems or forward rolling.

I agree, the clutch bite/footbrake method is indeed more predictable and reliable than trying to work the handbrake system as well as your foot pedals.