FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dark

Probably, probably not. There is not actual test has done on BRZ with stickier tires vs stock tires. Though the Mustang tires in the test were not stock tires, they were "track pack" tires.

Factory options are 'stock'.

I think what he means is that between the two track layouts, the BRZ was slower on the 'handling' track that they were tested on. But on the power track, even with better tires, the Mustang's power advantage would probably still hold out.

Willow Springs: (looks more high-speed friendly?)



Streets of Willow: (where the comparo was)



Edit:
And for scale:

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Factory options are 'stock'.

I think what he means is that between the two track layouts, the BRZ was slower on the 'handling' track that they were tested on. But on the power track, even with better tires, the Mustang's power advantage would probably still hold out.

Willow Springs: (looks more high-speed friendly?)



Streets of Willow: (where the comparo was)



Edit:
And for scale:

I see. I missed the part that. Absolutely, powerful car will be more favorable on a track with more straight-line even though the heavier.

Even though the track pack tires are stock, they are really better than the standard tires plus you have to spend more money on that over standard tires.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dark

I see. I missed the part that. Absolutely, powerful car will be more favorable on a track with more straight-line even though the heavier.

Crap, I thought this was the Mustang thread...

Mustang in the Z thread, RSX in the Mustang thread, and F1 cars in the Focus ST thread.


Heh...

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Crap, I thought this was the Mustang thread...

Mustang in the Z thread, RSX in the Mustang thread, and F1 cars in the Focus ST thread.


Heh...

I thought so too. Gotta get out real quick.

[Kamus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think you mean streets. on big willow you could probably put any tires you want on the brz and that 1.5 sec is only going to get way bigger

Yeah, street tires.

The track pack tires are considerably stickier tires than the ones in the BRZ right?

What i meant was is that i'd love to see how the BRZ would do with equivalent grip on the tires.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Kamus

Yeah, street tires.

The track pack tires are considerably stickier tires than the ones in the BRZ right?

What i meant was is that i'd love to see how the BRZ would do with equivalent grip on the tires.

i think youre confused. i meant streets as in streets of willow. its the track the test was on. willow springs is a different track whre i dont think any tire could get a brz within reach of the v6. i dont think rcomps would help the brz on big willow though

[Embarrassed]

Originally Posted by Kamus

The track pack tires are considerably stickier tires than the ones in the BRZ right?

Yes...er no... err...

Yes, to the group of people who have put there cars on the track there is a large difference between the two. On the other hand, 1.5s on that track is not large or even pretty big, it's OMFG huge. Now, if you want to talk about what would happen if you put the stickiest DOT tires on, you'd make it up and then a bit. You would also need a new set of tires with each track event. $$$$. If you put the same compound tires on the Mustang, it would still be ahead - and it would need a new set of tires each event too.

The Z would walk them both.

O

[Ricochet48]

I just had to make my first post in response to some of the misguided comparisons made in this thread.

As some mentioned, both cars in different categories/markets.

The 370z is closer to a muscle car with a v6 engine with twice as much torque, (Look at the 0-60 times, they do not lie) while at the same time maintaining 'sporty' attributes. With the sport package which includes an LSD, 19" Rays, 14" brake calipers, etc., you can put even canyons to shame.

The two main issues users had in this thread revolved around the 'unrefined' engine (especially at higher rpms) and 'weakness' at the track.

At this point, I would like to remind you that you can pick 3 of the following:

1) Performance
2) Price
3) Reliability

For starting at under $30,000 in 2009 (base), the Z is still a great value.

In regards to the first compliant, engine notes and feel are largely subjective. Reviewers have noted the 'coarseness' of the VQ engine though. In my opinion, this falls into the high performance/low cost center. I also feel that this can easily be remedied by a myriad of cat-back exhaust systems (fast intentions, stillen, hks, etc.)

The track comments really got to me. First of all, non-racers should not be comparing race cars. I would venture to say that about 5% of this forum will ever track the car. Therefore, any reference to non-track situations are non-applicable.

Aside from a GT3, almost no cars are truly ready for the track from the factory. If you plan on tracking, brake fluid, lines, and tires are virtually a must on any car.

The Z specifically has oil cooling issues at the track. Nissan didn't put one on until the 2012 version (and it's only a dinky air/water cooler). The rationale behind this was cost, simple as that. If a very small portion of your customer base is going to race on the track, allow them to add it themselves and spare the other buyers. A simple solution for Z owners that want to track: get an oil cooler (there's at least 3 brands making them ATM).

The brakes/tires will be more expensive to maintain than the FRS/BRZ as it's a heavier car. This is just science:

More rubber/rim = more $.
More weight = more wear & tear on brakes = more replacing = more $.

What it really boils down to is preference (as they are totally different as mentioned):

If you have the extra money, want quicker acceleration & low end torque, can live with only 2 seats, want a hatch, etc.--the Z is more suited for you.

If you live and die for handling and don't care that Camrys will beat you in a straight line, need extra seats for emergencies/kids, need to fit 4 track tires, don't want to pay for more track-based maintenance, and can live with just about every HS male in the country drooling over your ride, and can live with about half of those HS males getting their hands on and eventually turning them into 'rice'--the BRZ/FRS may be your ride.

To clarify I'm not trying to bash at all. I love the 86 and have been following since the first concept quite thoroughly. I currently track my RSX-S extensively and have it prepped for the track with standard performance modifications, but more importantly, race pads, brake fluids, SS lines, star specs, volks, sways, & lots of bars. I've been flagged to pass poor drivers in Ferrari's, kept close to NSX's, etc. Tracking is 90% drivers. I've also had Miata's, CRX's, etc. on my tail at the same time. I realize my limits...

I plan to personally wait for an STI version or a TRD supercharger to get some power with a warranty. This would make a happy medium between the Z and the 86 IMO. Basic bolt on's will only yield ~200hp with I/H/E and a tune. If you got more serious and get cams/flywheel you can get a bit more, but nowhere in Z-land. If the 86 was available when I got my RSX-S I would have gotten it HANDS DOWN. But as a 25 year old professional with disposal income that's never felt torque and wants an 'impractical' car until marriage/kids, etc., the Z is more up my ally.

Also on a completely different note. I've only seen about 6 Z's EVER in Chicagoland and on business trips. I also like that there's not going to be a lot of 86's (well, at first). I also feel that as somebody else mentioned, the Z looks exotic (check out the Amuse kit!) while the 86 looks more 'modest,' but still sharp.

Just my $.02. Thanks for listening, opinions very welcomed.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Embarrassed

Yes...er no... err...

Yes, to the group of people who have put there cars on the track there is a large difference between the two. On the other hand, 1.5s on that track is not large or even pretty big, it's OMFG huge. Now, if you want to talk about what would happen if you put the stickiest DOT tires on, you'd make it up and then a bit. You would also need a new set of tires with each track event. $$$$. If you put the same compound tires on the Mustang, it would still be ahead - and it would need a new set of tires each event too.

The Z would walk them both.

O

Exactly. BRZ is ideal only you heavily tune it and track it. Light weight gives a huge advantage for tuning. Stock vs stock, Z wins hands down.

[YukiHachiRoku]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Crap, I thought this was the Mustang thread...

Mustang in the Z thread, RSX in the Mustang thread, and F1 cars in the Focus ST thread.


Heh...

yeah wth, so much derailing...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

Exactly. BRZ is ideal only you heavily tune it and track it. Light weight gives a huge advantage for tuning. Stock vs stock, Z wins hands down.

mod for mod the z would win too. now dollar for dollar...

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

mod for mod the z would win too. now dollar for dollar...

Tell me more about it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

Tell me more about it.

Because why not. I dont see what would make the brz more responsive to mods

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Because why not. I dont see what would make the brz more responsive to mods

Well the lower weight helps get more out of power and traction-related gains.