How to run E85 on stock 86 BRZ FRS with OFT tune

[s2d4]

Yeap, from the front, not the back.

[ZZT86]

Exactamundo !

[benlaz88]

all i can say "Lovin it".Pull are so much better and you can definitely tell the different. Now just waiting my for JDL UEL header and overpipe than prob do a e tune with the OFT.

[mid_life_crisis]

Getting cold at night now, so it's time to go back to 93 octane. How far do you have to run the tank down before filling with gasoline? Will anything below a 1/4 tank suffice or do I need to be seeing the low fuel warning?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Getting cold at night now, so it's time to go back to 93 octane. How far do you have to run the tank down before filling with gasoline? Will anything below a 1/4 tank suffice or do I need to be seeing the low fuel warning?

definitely lower than 1/4 a tank. my car wouldnt start when I switched back and my gas light was even on. I would do the same procedure that you did to switch back to 93 that you did to switch to e85.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Getting cold at night now, so it's time to go back to 93 octane. How far do you have to run the tank down before filling with gasoline? Will anything below a 1/4 tank suffice or do I need to be seeing the low fuel warning?

you could adjust your cranking IPW tables

as per Malt's here

I think I would go with malts adjustments below

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40


as well as add a gallon of 93 to full tank of E85 should sort starting issues.

else best to run it down to low fuel light for changeover as per first post in this thread.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by raven1231

definitely lower than 1/4 a tank. my car wouldnt start when I switched back and my gas light was even on. I would do the same procedure that you did to switch back to 93 that you did to switch to e85.

Originally Posted by steve99

you could adjust your cranking IPW tables

as per Malt's here

I think I would go with malts adjustments below

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40


as well as add a gallon of 93 to full tank of E85 should sort starting issues.

else best to run it down to low fuel light for changeover as per first post in this thread.

It isn't just the cold starting. Getting E85 is inconvenient enough that combined with the cold start headaches, it just isn't worth it right now. I have the latest tune from Shiv that supposedly incorporates the Pulse Width edits and it made no difference.
As I understand it, the critical thing to remember when switching fuels is that you can get away with E85 fuel on a gasoline tune because E85 is more knock resistant. It won't really run right, but it won't hurt anything. The reverse is not true, so it is critical not to run gasoline on an E85 tune because the increased timing will cause big problems with the less knock resistant gasoline.


The sequence as I understand is:
From Gas to E85
1) Run down to as low as you dare.
2) Fill with E85.
3) Drive gently until the trims stabilize again, indicating that the pure gas in the lines is gone.
4) Flash with E85 tune.
5) Drive gently for 15 or 20 miles to let the ecu learn the new fuel.


From E85 to Gas
1) Run down the tank. The lower the better but how low is necessary I'm not clear about as E85 on a gasoline tune isn't the end of the world.
2) Flash with gasoline tune.
3) Fill with gasoline.
4) Drive gently until the trims stabilize or at least 15 or 20 miles to let the ecu learn gasoline again.


Based on Raven's experience, a 1:3 E85:93 ratio will not run well, so even going back to gasoline, you should run the tank down as far as you can.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

It isn't just the cold starting. Getting E85 is inconvenient enough that combined with the cold start headaches, it just isn't worth it right now. I have the latest tune from Shiv that supposedly incorporates the Pulse Width edits and it made no difference.
As I understand it, the critical thing to remember when switching fuels is that you can get away with E85 fuel on a gasoline tune because E85 is more knock resistant. It won't really run right, but it won't hurt anything. The reverse is not true, so it is critical not to run gasoline on an E85 tune because the increased timing will cause big problems with the less knock resistant gasoline.


The sequence as I understand is:
From Gas to E85
1) Run down to as low as you dare.
2) Fill with E85.
3) Drive gently until the trims stabilize again, indicating that the pure gas in the lines is gone.
4) Flash with E85 tune.
5) Drive gently for 15 or 20 miles to let the ecu learn the new fuel.


From E85 to Gas
1) Run down the tank. The lower the better but how low is necessary I'm not clear about as E85 on a gasoline tune isn't the end of the world.
2) Flash with gasoline tune.
3) Fill with gasoline.
4) Drive gently until the trims stabilize or at least 15 or 20 miles to let the ecu learn gasoline again.


Based on Raven's experience, a 1:3 E85:93 ratio will not run well, so even going back to gasoline, you should run the tank down as far as you can.

I usually do the the same proceedure going from petrol to E85 as I do fir E85 to petrol

1.Run e85 down to fuel light on
2. fill with petrol
3. drive very sedately till fuel trims rise/fall rapidly
4.flash petrol tune
5. drive sedately till trims stabilize

If you flash petrol map straight away its going to run pig rich and possibly be hard to start. you won't get any appreciable knock if your driving gently for that short period of line clearing.

[Fizz]

@steve99 have you ever dyno'ed the actual difference e85 makes over the 100 we get over here? Some say 10hp gain, I've read some claiming up to 20hp gain, but curious to see a dyno comparison on a stock or stockish car.

Are the gains quite noticeable going from 100 to e85?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

@steve99 have you ever dyno'ed the actual difference e85 makes over the 100 we get over here? Some say 10hp gain, I've read some claiming up to 20hp gain, but curious to see a dyno comparison on a stock or stockish car.

Are the gains quite noticeable going from 100 to e85?

Gains quite noticeable going from petrol to E85, more torque over entire rpm range better top end even on completely stock car. Our P100 RON only about as good as the USA 91. Even on 100ron you cannot run the usa 93 maps without heaps of knock.

gain on stock car in USA was dyno around 15-20 hp with our crap fuel our gain likely to be closer to 20 as we would be down a few hp due our crap petrol. @Wayno had some dyno numbers from aussie cars

[ZZT86]

Our 98 > E85 is quite a fair difference. Bum dyno would say at least 20.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by ZZT86

Our 98 > E85 is quite a fair difference. Bum dyno would say at least 20.

Is that arrow a comparator or a directional?

[Wayno]

Originally Posted by steve99

Gains quite noticeable going from petrol to E85, more torque over entire rpm range better top end even on completely stock car. Our P100 RON only about as good as the USA 91. Even on 100ron you cannot run the usa 93 maps without heaps of knock.

gain on stock car in USA was dyno around 15-20 hp with our crap fuel our gain likely to be closer to 20 as we would be down a few hp due our crap petrol. @Wayno had some dyno numbers from aussie cars

This was in march, so OFT 1.5x era. I wasn't present so don't give me any credit.

You have to remember that if people don't customise on 98, you are further away from the full potential, unlike E85 which is tea parties and roses out of the box. This is why local tuners don't recommend tuning on 98, it's more work for them.

Stock 98 - 100-110 rwkw
Stg1 98 - 108-110 rwkw
Stg2 UEL 98 - 117 rwkw
Stg2 UEL E85 - 126-130 kw
Stg2 EL (stock header) E85 - 133 rwkw

The next one is in a month. Should have lots more tuned cars instead of cars with parts just thrown on. There will be lots of OFT vs custom E85 cars. Expect higher power figures due to later tunes and custom tuning, at least one NA car should be 140 rwkw. Basically the results from the previous day should be totally superseded.

If you try to do the "add up" thing, it's roughly like this...

Stock 98 = 105kw

Stg1 98 = +5kw
Untuned UEL 98 = +7kw
Stg2 UEL 98 = +10kw
Stg2 EL 98 = +12kw
Stg2 UEL E85 = +20kw
Stg2 EL E85 = +22kw

Header-back exhaust on Stg1 = 0
Header-back exhaust on Stg2 = +3kw
Air Filter = +3kw (not included in above)

Based on this old data on this particular dyno my AT with Stg2 UEL, OP, BPB, filter and stock exhaust should make 120kw/160hp on 98 and 130kw/175hp on E85.

[ZZT86]

comparator . . .