2016 or 2015 FR-S?

[Tcoat]

[QUOTE=stevesnj;1966071]It's a more safe and controllable car that even Tsada says it needed to retune the suspension but enough to not take the fun out of the equation and not make counter-steering an every corner event. I will control when I wanna go tail out not when the car decides.[/QUOTE]
And this

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

You do have a better grasp on the car and I have driven my friends '13 when it was new and a few test drives. The consensus on this forum and by Toyota and Subaru say that it is too much tail out. Also when the Chief Engineer of the car even says it needs to be a tighter suspension they made changes for the car and driver experience. Im not saying your opinion is wrong just saying the majority of car owners say the car tail whips too much, enough to spur a design improvement.

And this

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I'm not complaining since I don't even have the car, it handles great from my few drives in one. It's the frequent slide out's tail whips and oversteer even at slower speeds that led Tsada to retune to reduce this. It was noticed enough they made an improvement,thats all i'm saying.

And this

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Why is that surprising? It took GM 13 years to figure out they had a bad ignition switch which over that time was the cause of many deaths.Since this issue has been brought to Toyota's attention they had an obligation, in my opinion, to make the car more manageable. They didn't take away it's tail happiness altogether, they just made it so it occurred less frequently.

Annnnnnd this

[Tcoat]

If in your few minutes of seat time it kept "unpredictably swinging out" Man you need to learn to drive!


And I am outta here!

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If in your few minutes of seat time it kept "unpredictably swinging out" Man you need to learn to drive!


And I am outta here!

I seem consistent in my thoughts in every post you quoted me on. So my question to you is...why was the suspension retuned?

I never said it happened to me, I said from what I read a lot of drivers say it is tail happy, kicks out, is lively. However you want to phrase it.. In major publications and from others.

So my question is, WHY did they retune the suspension?

Here's from the Scion press release.

he 2015 Scion FR-S uses a 2.0-liter, flat boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration that delivers an impressive 200 horsepower and 151 pound-feet of torque. With its low center of gravity and lightweight body, the FR-S earns its reputation for great handling. These dynamics are further enhanced for 2015 with a more rigid front suspension and re-tuning of the rear shock absorbers. The improved damping results in less body roll and a more communicative driving experience.

Seems they know what they are doing. Less body roll to gain more control and keep a straighter line while increasing speeds around a corner.

And your post from here you confirm my theory:

The Cars:
2013 Stock FRS. 32000 kms This car had been recently traded and was BEAT TO HELL! Curb rash on the cheap knock off rims so bad I didn't think they would hold air, pretty sure somebody had jumped on the roof and the front bumper had met more then a few solid objects.But... she ran great and had some pretty good original tires on it. Not going to go into detail on how it handled because there are about a million reviews that can tell you that. Suffice it to say it had the normal "lively" rear end swing, fairly obvious over steer and nice recovery that I had read about so many times. I said "I had read about" because since mine was not stock when I bought it I had never really experienced the same handling I had read about before. It took me a bit to get used to the difference but once I did she would do what ever I wanted but not punish me for minor errors.


2014 FRS 6800 kms All parts TRD (don't laugh I didn't pay for most of them) Drop in filter, exhaust, sway bars, lowering springs. Stock rims and tires. OK I was surprised at the difference really. The over steer is not nearly as noticeable and have to blip the gas and flick the wheel a little more to get the rear end out. I noticed a quite a reduction in body roll but is still fairly obvious. Don't know if it is the intake/exhaust combo but the throttle response and 4000 rev dip is not nearly as noticeable as it was on full stock. Overall felt much more stable and was easier to pull out and straighten up after a turn.


2015 FRS bone stock 120 kms Pretty much the same as mine with the TRD parts. The biggest difference I noticed was the reduction in body roll as it was even less then mine. I would say that it actually had a bit of understeer and it was not as eager to kick around and I had to push it a little more then even mine to get it to do what I wanted. It did however level out after a hard turn much quicker. Sort of reminded me of the BRZ I took out when still shopping.

Seems you agree the rear is "lively" and "just blip the gas and flick the wheel to get the rear end out" and the winning quote from you; "I would say that it (2015) actually had a bit of understeer and it was not as eager to kick around and I had to push it a little more then even mine to get it to do what I wanted. It did however level out after a hard turn much quicker"

Seems you have some explaining to do. and "Man you need to learn to drive!" your little child attitude is just that!, but I did laugh I must say"

And I'm outta here!!!

[wbradley]

stevesnj, I find it rather annoying that you continue to imply that Toyota's initial suspension tune was a design flaw. I for one, followed the development of this vehicle and pre-ordered my car before the very first shipment arrived, in fact the first day the vehicle went on sale. Some auto journalists, in fact many (IE:Chris Harris)indicated they loved the playfulness of the Toyota. Also, these vehicles exhibit minimal body roll with their exceptionally low centre or gravity whilst maintaining supple suspension. This too was applauded by many journalists. Lastly, the project was headed by Mr. Tada, who is specifically a highly regarded SUSPENSION engineer. Subaru decided on firmer front suspension consistent with the character of the rest of their lineup, tuned with understeer. Toyota, who initially conceived the project, had a vision for a car that hilighted the uniqueness of rear wheel drive combined with a low centre of gravity and relatively lightweight. The initial suspension for the first two years showcased the unique character of the car. Many knowledgeable race people have indicated this suspension tune with sticky tires and minimal mods can perform superbly on a course. The style of driving, braking, etc is adjusted depending on the suspension tune. I believe in this case its simply a matter of preference. I'm not sure how knowledgeable or experienced you are in a high performance environment, no offense intended. Toyota likes to be every person's car and that has played a roll in their enormous success. I think you have misinterpreted what you have read on this subject, indicating yours is the option of the majority. You have also represented "opinion" as "fact". Toyota is probably the most conservative car company in the world, and for once, even if just for two years they did as Akio Toyoda demanded, and built a truly fun car. Now they are making a car for those with another opinion as to whats preferable, and moving back to conservatism. Check out Chris Harris on the GT86 on Youtube if you get a chance.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by wbradley

stevesnj, I find it rather annoying that you continue to imply that Toyota's initial suspension tune was a design flaw. I for one, followed the development of this vehicle and pre-ordered my car before the very first shipment arrived, in fact the first day the vehicle went on sale. Some auto journalists, in fact many (IE:Chris Harris)indicated they loved the playfulness of the Toyota. Also, these vehicles exhibit minimal body roll with their exceptionally low centre or gravity whilst maintaining supple suspension. This too was applauded by many journalists. Lastly, the project was headed by Mr. Tada, who is specifically a highly regarded SUSPENSION engineer. Subaru decided on firmer front suspension consistent with the character of the rest of their lineup, tuned with understeer. Toyota, who initially conceived the project, had a vision for a car that hilighted the uniqueness of rear wheel drive combined with a low centre of gravity and relatively lightweight. The initial suspension for the first two years showcased the unique character of the car. Many knowledgeable race people have indicated this suspension tune with sticky tires and minimal mods can perform superbly on a course. The style of driving, braking, etc is adjusted depending on the suspension tune. I believe in this case its simply a matter of preference. I'm not sure how knowledgeable or experienced you are in a high performance environment, no offense intended. Toyota likes to be every person's car and that has played a roll in their enormous success. I think you have misinterpreted what you have read on this subject, indicating yours is the option of the majority. You have also represented "opinion" as "fact". Toyota is probably the most conservative car company in the world, and for once, even if just for two years they did as Akio Toyoda demanded, and built a truly fun car. Now they are making a car for those with another opinion as to whats preferable, and moving back to conservatism. Check out Chris Harris on the GT86 on Youtube if you get a chance.

I can understand your thoughts, flaw was too strong. The option of the majority is to drive a fun inexpensive car, I just do not like the characteristics of the 13,14 MY I have been reading about. Just my preference to have a car that suites ME. Other seem to misunderstand my point. If you like your car good for you, I like this car too, I like a tighter handling car and the '15 seems to be tuned enough more that suites me. Anything wrong with that?

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I can understand your thoughts, flaw was too strong. The option of the majority is to drive a fun inexpensive car, I just do not like the characteristics of the 13,14 MY I have been reading about. Just my preference to have a car that suites ME. Other seem to misunderstand my point. If you like your car good for you, I like this car too, I like a tighter handling car and the '15 seems to be tuned enough more that suites me. Anything wrong with that?

Finally we agree. Different strokes for different folks.

PG 3 "orgy of overseer" describes what people like about controlled sliding. I never previously had a car that could do this. My 2015 WRX is much more point and shoot BTW.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37779