2016 or 2015 FR-S?

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

No, they just wanted to have a kind of differentiation. That's why they had different suspension settings. FRS was focused to the younger generation and Subaru to the most grown ups. And besides the differences were not so many. You had to go close to the limit and even then it wasn't very clear. Now, they don't care anymore to differentiate it because the car is in its latest years. It is preparing to die. Everyone says that it is not selling anymore. That's why we have so many "limited edition" models.

God this thread is depressing to a future FR-S hopeful.

[TylerLieberman]

Not true. I was told the 2020 FRS was going to be the best one ever. Compound charged and 2500lbs with 350bhp. All for 22k. Only downside is it won't have the kneed pads so that might be a deal breaker for some.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

This article is a bit old and it is even before the upgraded version. If you check now, numbers are disappointing even in the US. Check here for the BRZ:

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subar...z-sports-coupe

I suspect the same is for the other brands. People wanted more power and they didn't get it ...

dafuq are you smoking? The fact that the BRZ sales are increasing AT ALL is amazing, Subaru was initially bringing in 1 BRZ for every 3 FR-S' in this country but that ratio is changing more to Subaru's favor. Also remember Fuji Heavy Industries makes money on every 86 that rolls out of the factory, not just the ones with blue ovals on the front.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=464

Worth noting is that the FR-S is down a significant amount from August last year (13k to 10k) but imho it's maintaining which is still a feat in itself.

Find me a Japanese sports car from the last ten years where sales not only maintained their volume but INCREASED at the 2+ year mark without a significant overhaul. Sure people want more power, and then every car targeted to the affordable market (<$40k) with multiple engine options almost always sells more of the low power version than the high power version, it's practically a fact.



All that being said, this thread is moronic, expect zero significant changes for the '16 model year. Don't expect anything worth getting excited over until the calendar year 2016 and even then that's not a guarantee. Japanese companies tend to wait until journalists are making comments like "Long in the tooth" before significant updates. You know who came up with the idea of yearly updates? General Motors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned..._of_the_phrase

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

dafuq are you smoking? The fact that the BRZ sales are increasing AT ALL is amazing, Subaru was initially bringing in 1 BRZ for every 3 FR-S' in this country but that ratio is changing more to Subaru's favor. Also remember Fuji Heavy Industries makes money on every 86 that rolls out of the factory, not just the ones with blue ovals on the front.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=464

Find me a Japanese sports car from the last ten years where sales not only maintained their volume but INCREASED at the 2+ year mark without a significant overhaul. Sure people want more power, and then every car targeted to the affordable market (<$40k) with multiple engine options almost always sells more of the low power version than the high power version, it's practically a fact.



All that being said, this thread is moronic, expect zero significant changes for the '16 model year. Don't expect anything worth getting excited over until the calendar year 2016 and even then that's not a guarantee. Japanese companies tend to wait until journalists are making comments like "Long in the tooth" before significant updates. You know who came up with the idea of yearly updates? General Motors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned..._of_the_phrase

Finally a voice of reason from the wilderness! I was starting to buckle under the pressure!

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

All that being said, this thread is moronic, expect zero significant changes for the '16 model year. Don't expect anything worth getting excited over until the calendar year 2016 and even then that's not a guarantee. Japanese companies tend to wait until journalists are making comments like "Long in the tooth" before significant updates. You know who came up with the idea of yearly updates? General Motors.

When i created a thread just for insight and facts when they become available about the 2016 FR-S I thought I would be encountering mature facts and conversation but now I'm moronic? Seems you need psychological help. Knowing it all must be a blessing because if I did, I wouldn't be asking for insight and facts. So tell me what are the official changes, if any, will be coming to the 2016? You obviously know the facts so please post links of your facts you found. I'm not expecting anything until the official press release. But it seems you know things Toyota doesn't know about the 2016.

I am quoting myself since you obviously don't understand what I was interested in but I'm sure you read my OP since you are so perfect. Please don't call this thread or me moronic, if you don't have facts than reserve your unintelligent statements for another thread since you're maturity level is null.

Yeh I'm way early on this but seems Scion is consistent with mid to late May on the official release of the next model year. The specs on the '15 started their way out into the web about January if I remember and I will be buying between April and June of 2015 cash! So whenever someone hears something factual or extremely close to factual and realistic on the 2016 model to make it worth the wait that would be cool. But something like the 2015 updates i.e some retuned suspension part's, shark fin, dash plastics upgrade, etc. are not the changes I'm looking for. Noticeable body style and interior changes that look good is what I'm after. I don't need to race around everyday or drift, I want a fun everyday car to take to the track every once in a while. My first and subsequent cars were all RWD and as an F1 fan this type of car is in my blood to own another RWD sports car. To each their own. Anywho when you see anything out there on the interweb about the 2016 changes post it here for my selfish needs :P Since I am paying cash I want to spend right the first time, I plan to have the car for a while.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So you are saying not one but TWO major development teams took two years to figure out there was a problem and then fix it??????

Like I said above they KNEW the FRS was like this from day one so it was a deliberate decision to make it that way.

I am sure the FR-S AND GT86 suspensions were deliberately tuned the way they were on initial release. This is no Corvair, there was no mistake that needed to be corrected. This is a relatively lightweight vehicle unique in the market with rear wheel drive and an LSD. It was marketed by Toyota/Scion as the spiritual successor to the AE86, the first car to be widely utilized for drifting. They deliberately built a safe, driftable car. Look at the drift graphic on the 86 logo for God sakes. I think they just felt that a change was due to maintain sales momentum. Neither suspension is more correct. Look at some of the lap times stock '13 and '14 FR-S's produce with a tire swap only.
stevesnj WANTS to believe understeer is better, but there is no shortage of new performance cars that understeer by design *cough* Subaru WRX. Overseer can be very desirable if controllable. Snap overseer, now that's risky. He is convinced they corrected a flaw but clearly the first gen suspension design was deliberate. I believe like the original Miata, the first generation is and will be the classic, but time will tell. For sure it is most true to the philosophy of the vehicle‘s design. Now they have lost the T pattern on the dash and the drift biased suspension. Aside from a few upgrades, I still prefer the characer of my original. It is truest to Tada's vision.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I am sure the FR-S AND GT86 suspensions were deliberately tuned the way they were on initial release. This is no Corvair, there was no mistake that needed to be corrected. This is a relatively lightweight vehicle unique in the market with rear wheel drive and an LSD. It was marketed by Toyota/Scion as the spiritual successor to the AE86, the first car to be widely utilized for drifting. They deliberately built a safe, driftable car. Look at the drift graphic on the 86 logo for God sakes. I think they just felt that a change was due to maintain sales momentum. Neither suspension is more correct. Look at some of the lap times stock '13 and '14 FR-S's produce with a tire swap only.
stevesnj WANTS to believe understeer is better, but there is no shortage of new performance cars that understeer by design *cough* Subaru WRX. Overseer can be very desirable if controllable. Snap overseer, now that's risky. He is convinced they corrected a flaw but clearly the first gen suspension design was deliberate. I believe like the original Miata, the first generation is and will be the classic, but time will tell. For sure it is most true to the philosophy of the vehicle‘s design. Now they have lost the T pattern on the dash and the drift biased suspension. Aside from a few upgrades, I still prefer the characer of my original. It is truest to Tada's vision.

AHMEN!


I am glad there is support for my theory!!!!
The time I took the 13, my 14 and a 15 out for a drive back to back on the same run I was 100% confident that they made the changes to open up the market. The change is not huge but the over steer is gone since they have addressed that segment of buyers and now want to broaden the base. As you said it is not that unusual a tactic.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by wbradley

stevesnj WANTS to believe understeer is better

,

I do? I said less oversteer is better. It's not eliminated it's just not as frequent, to each their own. I prefer to not have oversteer, I prefer a tight handling car over one that may oversteer more so than the pre '15 MY.

Overseer can be very desirable if controllable.

Of course, you are correct. I want to decide the oversteer not the car.

He is convinced they corrected a flaw but clearly the first gen suspension design was deliberate.

I'm so glad you all know what I am thinking and I don't AGAIN this is not a flaw it is a retune to avoid too many instances of oversteer. You want to slide around every corner so be it. I don't. I would rather have an enhanced tuned suspension rather than unpredictable.

I still prefer the character of my original. It is truest to Tada's vision

His vision is a fun car on and off the track, not a car that is unpredictable. Yes it all in the drivers responsible use of the skinny pedal but I'd rather go around a corner more confident than wondering if the tail will whip out unexpectedly. It doesn't happen all the time but enough to warrant a change that Tsada himself implemented. People make mistakes and he corrected something he wasn't 100% happy with. That's what I've been repeatedly saying but noone can comprehend this.

Let Tsada speak for himself here;

3:10

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQNGUzDgzmI#t=190"]Tetsuya Tada -- Community Q&A - YouTube[/ame]

[Wise]

I think the days of Turbo/NA model japanese variants are behind us.

This car is more like the RX-8 and MX5. One engine option, different trims.

A turbo model doesn't just mean a new engine development, it means a new transmission, new suspension, possible new safety standards.

I don't see it happening on the ZN6. Maybe in 2018 for the next model if they make one.

The 86/BRZ might be one of those one time models like the RX-8 or S2000.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

AHMEN!


The change is not huge but the over steer is gone since they have addressed that segment of buyers and now want to broaden the base. As you said it is not that unusual a tactic.

I agree, and they got me, I'm not out to drift to me drifting is stupid. I want a car that can handle a good as possible for the money. This isn't a Vette or a ferrari handling wise. It's an inexpensive FR car that does the best it can with the power to weight ratio it was given. Personally I don't want to have the care do stuff that I don't want it to do. I'm more of a handling/track guy who likes fun different than sliding around. But that doesn't seem okay and you all want me to agree with you on something I don't agree with, I respect your opinion but don't tell me I should buy the same handling car you guys drive. Is that a problem?

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Wise

I think the days of Turbo/NA model japanese variants are behind us.

This car is more like the RX-8 and MX5. One engine option, different trims.

A turbo model doesn't just mean a new engine development, it means a new transmission, new suspension, possible new safety standards.

I don't see it happening on the ZN6. Maybe in 2018 for the next model if they make one.

The 86/BRZ might be one of those one time models like the RX-8 or S2000.

In the video i posted Tsada says NO FI, but that could change but not under his watch it seems. For the Supra yeh, thats expected. FI would change the dynamic of the car he has been developing since 2005. He used a low profile engine to keep the weight as low as possible and the weight distribution 53f 47rear for a reason. He's an engineer so I am gonna take his word for it. And the addition of FI will add weight and change the dynamic of the car, changing weight istribution in front and back, beefier trans for the increased torque of a SC or Turbo.

[stevesnj]

So enough of this silliness, here's my OP and in time if anyone sees OFFICIAL spec no GUESSES that would be helpful. I can guess but I prefer facts. Thanks all, even you boneheads, you know who you are..lo jk

Yeh I'm way early on this but seems Scion is consistent with mid to late May on the official release of the next model year. The specs on the '15 started their way out into the web about January if I remember and I will be buying between April and June of 2015 cash! So whenever someone hears something factual or extremely close to factual and realistic on the 2016 model to make it worth the wait that would be cool. But something like the 2015 updates i.e some retuned suspension part's, shark fin, dash plastics upgrade, etc. are not the changes I'm looking for. Noticeable body style and interior changes that look good is what I'm after. I don't need to race around everyday or drift, I want a fun everyday car to take to the track every once in a while. My first and subsequent cars were all RWD and F1 fan so it's kinda in my blood to own another RWD sports car. To each their own. Anywho when you see anything out there on the interweb about the 2016 changes post it here for my selfish needs :P Since I am paying cash I want to spend right the first time, I plan to have the car for a while. .

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I agree, and they got me, I'm not out to drift to me drifting is stupid. I want a car that can handle a good as possible for the money. This isn't a Vette or a ferrari handling wise. It's an inexpensive FR car that does the best it can with the power to weight ratio it was given. Personally I don't want to have the care do stuff that I don't want it to do. I'm more of a handling/track guy who likes fun different than sliding around. But that doesn't seem okay and you all want me to agree with you on something I don't agree with, I respect your opinion but don't tell I should buy the same handling car you guys drive. Is that a problem?

Dude all is good! Not telling you, that you need this or that. Just totally disagree that the original set up on the FRS was a mistake. They targeted one demographic with that run now they are moving onto another. Mine actually fall in between the two since lowering it killed some of the over steer.

[wbradley]

stevesnj- I'm not sure why you think the 1st gen suspension is unpredictable. Hardly so, it is the most controllable, driftable car around. You make it sound like it suffers from snap oversteer like an MR2. And trust me I'm not worried about resale, I'll go thru 5 daily drivers while the FR-S remains in my stable.