To Drive a stick or cruise an Auto?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Lytheum

i cant see myself ever getting an auto on a sporty car. autos belong in big heavy highway cruisers. even if the auto was faster i'd still have to row my own.

Say the same thing after driving this car's AT. Your thought will change

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Say the same thing after driving this car's AT. Your thought will change

I 90% agree with Ichitaka. I've driven both on a few occasions and Ichitaka here was my driving partner in the FRS Press Event last week.

Coming from a SCCA SOLO2 Nationals, Instructor at Drift Day, and layout and operations consultant for Formula D and D1 Grand Prix USA, background, I'm no slouch or foreign to the standard manual transmission.

The FRS I ordered is an automatic, however, and am planning to also get a manual as time goes and resources and funds permit.

The Automatic in the case of FRS/BRZ is not like a traditional auto slushbox in actual use. Although its fundamental design may be close to the traditional automatic with a torque converter, the operation and feel, through advanced design and many years of R&D for the IS-F and this car, feels much closer to that of the pneumatic clutch systems of exotic cars.

As such, it merits from both the easy operation and smooth feel of the auto, with less maintenance costs and complexity, but also when asked and with choice of a few levels of selective software pre-programs, it does lock up for a direct linkage to the engine in 2-6th gear, and provides manual mode where it will snap into each gear, drop into a lower gear to full range of RPMs instantly, and also hold a gear to redline and even ride the rev limit without shifting, if you choose the mode of program.

In more than half the cases in the one day autocross, constant arc hold drift practice, and full 2.2 mile road course. The journalists present, posted faster laps, especially in the autocross section in the AT, over the MT.

In the hands of a seasoned driver, the MT should post fraction of a second faster laps after enough time with the car, but this is also mostly attributed to the wider gaps in gears 3-6th in the automatic. With full 6 speeds to choose, when I say wider, I don't mean wide at all in a traditional sense. The FRS AT has a really flexible, multi-use range and is still very close from 1-4th gears. 5 and 6 are progressively taller, but if you REALLY think in real practice, in MOST small raceway of under 2 miles, where the FRS shines well, these two top gears will not be used, as the car really doesn't hit the 125mph+ range in such tracks.
Moreover, even the most enthusiastic of Sunday racers prefer to stay off Super Speedway scale tracks of such speeds. So for all intensive purposes, the 1-4th is close enough and closer than most traditional 5speed Manual of the past.

The tall 5-6 gear provides in exchange, a rather whopping 3mpg difference on the freeway. And a much quieter ride with less wear on the engine, than the fully closed 6MT box.

Sure, the manual is the way to go if the FRS you want is an all-out track car dedicated for such, as upgrades to clutch to hold more power, or if changes to final gear ratios in custom racing approach actually requires you to have the closely packed full 6 speed, or in the case of those into drifting, clutch engagement and control of driveline shock, is a necessary element I suppose. (spelled in most youth terms, clutch kicking).

Keep in mind though, that shifting is actually a loss-time element in any track racing for speed and time. The more gears you have, and the closer they are, the more skills and concentration a driver needs. If the driver has enough talent and pretty deep senses in the art of dynamic driving, it may help as in theory it does provide the advantage. But it being a MANUAL as the term implies, the speed only comes at the available skill set, especially with cars this delicate, many geared, and underpowered, driver skill is the biggest factor in speed. With a novice track racer, the FRS will always post faster times with its sophisticated and responsive sport semi-auto mode transmission. Period.

I prefer Manual in most cases, even when I drove a Lamborghini Gallardo eShift, I had preferred the standard manual due to the unpredictable element and quirks, but with the FRS/ISF semi-auto mode shifting, it is one of the few I really would not mind at all, especially for a daily-driven part time Sunday track car.

PS. But I hear you... The amount of "WHAT THE HELL?" words that come from my peers is pretty deflating, but I am old enough to see through peer pressure, and I am positive that half of them will "STFU" when they try the FRS in Semi Auto at the autocross. And in due time, I will buy another with the wonderful, racetrack-ready 6MT-box-equipped car too, but that is when I get serious and toss the Torsen LSD, and shove a 4 pinion clutch pack LSD with even shorter final drive, and roll cage the crap out of it to partake in a ONE MAKE FRS CUP that I want to organize one day. LOL! Because I see this car like the AE86. That it is something I don't need to go all out in 2012, because it will be a part of my fleet for the next 25 years like the old Hachiroku.
Besides, if there are rumors for a Turbocharged or Supercharged Hot Version Release model in the future, wouldn't you rather that THAT one as the full manual?? That's my plan!!

Lastly, why did I say 90%? Well, even a great car will not chance some folks minds right? ahhaha! All good either way man!

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by MrFRsLa

The auto will lack wheel spin and hardcore slides. Don't worry I will be the first to show off some skills in the manual when mine hits. I am waiting just like you guys. I just love hearing the pros and cons

I was getting pretty sideways on the raceway with the AT in Semi-AUto mode as well though... Want me to tandem drift with you?

[(Stealth Inc.)]

i was on the wall between MT & AT but, your opinion really swayed me toward the AT.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by (Stealth Inc.)

i was on the wall between MT & AT but, your opinion really swayed me toward the AT.

Well, everyone has opinions and preferences so just test drive one for yourself, even at a cost of losing a place in line if that is the case. Because you don't want to plunk down $28,000 out the door for a brand new car, and have regrets over the 60 payments.

Mine came to $29,080 for the Paddle-AT with no options selected but some floor mats. I'm in California too, where taxes are not the highest.

I'm glad to have helped you in providing some of my thoughts! Thanks!

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Say the same thing after driving this car's AT. Your thought will change

i love my current manual so much, but when i went for a spin in the AT i choose it instead, i will have both a MT and one of the best AT in my garage, longer gears in the AT are a good upside to me cause i want a bit more power and the supercharger TRD is developing will give the car enough TQ to make up for the longer gears, plus have you ever been in a big turbo car with short gears? you spend too much time in the turbo lag area between shifts to have fun, and if i ever go turbo i dont want my boost to last longer through the gears


in my friends turbo lotus we found that shifting at 40-60-85-115 was too quick for the track, we put a smaller final drive, now the shifts are around 50-80-105-130, which is perfect

if we went supercharged we would have just raised the rev limit to achieve similar shift points

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

Originally Posted by Longhorn248
Ahhh, forgot about that reason! Reminds me that I need to work on finding a JDM girlfriend, or maybe JDM modified for US use as I don't think I could learn Japanese.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbxjap
I guess it's very important to the Japanese that this car can beat Godzilla...

hahaha! In the early 90's a friend of mine got an NSX. The car was so low to the ground, and front window so raked and big, that his girl always complained that she can't wear skirts as people can look up her skirt sitting inside the car, from people standing on the sidewalk, OR when ingress/egressing from the car.

FRS is also such car, with even lower hip-point, so please do consult her if she minds wearing shorts or long pants.

Especially the JDM ones who are all in a trend to wear mini's and such.

[ZSwierczynski]

If you live in the LA Area, I would recommend an Auto as bad that sounds.

Depending on what you do in LA and where your job is located maybe a manual will be better because if you do not go to Downtown often, then I think you should be fine with a manual.

[poormans_LFA]

Originally Posted by ZSwierczynski

If you live in the LA Area, I would recommend an Auto as bad that sounds.

Depending on what you do in LA and where your job is located maybe a manual will be better because if you do not go to Downtown often, then I think you should be fine with a manual.

If you do go Downtown take the stinkin' metro!! Avoiding traffic and saving $$$ is what it's for.

[Sleeperz]

If you adjust your driving speed to the traffic you do not have to shift or shift a little. If the traffic is creeping ahead just creep ahead slower in 1st or 2nd gear if traffic is going no where fast.

[Lytheum]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Say the same thing after driving this car's AT. Your thought will change

it could be a ferrari or lambo...i still want a MT. theres just something about pulling though a gear and moving the shifter to the next one that makes me happy.

nothing wrong with auto's and im sure its fantastic

[Spd229]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

I was getting pretty sideways on the raceway with the AT in Semi-AUto mode as well though... Want me to tandem drift with you?

Things like this are what I like to hear about. That you can still have fun in the auto....which is what I think everyone really wants to know about. That this car, regardless of transmission, will be fun for the owner.

After all, if we're all having fun, does it really matter how we're changing gears?

[86knecht]

Get the six speed so you can have that Torsen LSD

[MrFRsLa]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

I was getting pretty sideways on the raceway with the AT in Semi-AUto mode as well though... Want me to tandem drift with you?

Wow lots of good input guys! Keep it comin'! I lol'd at the tandem drift.

Yes my commute is thru Downtown LA everyday. Hence the signature.

I have a manual now and doing just fine it truly doesn't bother me. I just want to hear everyones opinion.

BTW I heard thru the grape vine that about 75% of First 86's ordered a manual!