New C&D production BRZ review... "Porsche-like Handling"

[OrbitalEllipses]

Chris Harris' review of the Boxter S said that the electrical steering was just dandy, plenty lively. The new Boxster S is THE best Boxster S.

[djdnz]

Man would I love to get the '13 Boxster. Enjoy it.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Chris Harris' review of the Boxter S said that the electrical steering was just dandy, plenty lively. The new Boxster S is THE best Boxster S.

Nothing good can come out of things forced on manufactures by EPA in the name of fuel economy. See for yourself: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/n...-driven-review (Boxer S '13 has the same steering as 991 reviewed here)

I kinda trust Richard Hammond, and in one of the TG episodes of this passed winter season him and Jeremy literally had a word fight over this.

If its your first Porsche, problem solved, but all the purist geeks (myself included) will fight for the proven old system. I won't be surprised if Porsche don't get it right in the first iteration, and fixes are inevitable and car value for enthusiasts will be lower because of that. Not every Porsche is a good Porsche. They too have rotten eggs.

[serialk11r]

Well you can't just say screw progress, stick to old things even if they waste fuel (and sap power) for no good reason, the goal should be to develop newer AND better stuff. For something like steering there's no reason why electric assist should be worse, it's just that Porsche apparently hasn't figured it out yet, and that's a big shame :/

I guess not many people have felt a Lexus LFA's steering but I bet with all the money they threw into it and the massive emphasis on "feel", it's probably good, so it can and has been done, and hopefully they got it right with this car, and hopefully more manufacturers figure out that better steering feel is important.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Oriental Life

Nothing good can come out of things forced on manufactures by EPA in the name of fuel economy..

Unless you count things like cars getting better fuel economy, lower oil prices, people having more money to spend on other things, less dependence on foreign oil, less CO2 into the atmosphere, etc...

For me, the huge potential benefit is cars becoming lighter-weight (far too many oversized overweight pigs on the roads).

After 1987 when CAFE standards quit getting slightly higher every year, cars just got ever bigger/heavier every single year as powerplants became more efficient. They just saddled them with more mass!

I used to hate the idea of CAFE, but now I think it serves a very useful purpose and is the best way to reduce our consumption (which is WAY excessive).

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Unless you count things like cars getting better fuel economy, lower oil prices, people having more money to spend on other things, less dependence on foreign oil, less CO2 into the atmosphere, etc...

For me, the huge potential benefit is cars becoming lighter-weight (far too many oversized overweight pigs on the roads).

After 1987 when CAFE standards quit getting slightly higher every year, cars just got ever bigger/heavier every single year as powerplants became more efficient. They just saddled them with more mass!

I used to hate the idea of CAFE, but now I think it serves a very useful purpose and is the best way to reduce our consumption (which is WAY excessive).

Well said. This was one of the factors that swayed me towards the BRZ over a 420hp 3600lb Mustang GT.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Unless you count things like cars getting better fuel economy, lower oil prices, people having more money to spend on other things, less dependence on foreign oil, less CO2 into the atmosphere, etc...

For me, the huge potential benefit is cars becoming lighter-weight (far too many oversized overweight pigs on the roads).

After 1987 when CAFE standards quit getting slightly higher every year, cars just got ever bigger/heavier every single year as powerplants became more efficient. They just saddled them with more mass!

I used to hate the idea of CAFE, but now I think it serves a very useful purpose and is the best way to reduce our consumption (which is WAY excessive).

What can I say? Just that propaganda is working, and now you believe what you've been told...

<rant>

We live in the world, where cars are (will be) divided into 2 categories: econoboxes\'people movers' and performance cars. Econoboxes exist so that performance cars can survive (people in majority are buying econoboxes).

Look at Aston, with IQ in its lineup. Sacrifices have to be made, but not at the expense of flagships, such as DBS. 911 is a flagship for Porsche. But I guess that with passing of Ferdinand Porsche no one will give a damn, and we'll see more nonsense soon, like upcoming electrical FWD and gasoline RWD 911. What a joke.

Foreign oil and dependency on it - thats a ton of crap. Its a matter of political will to become independent, considering that US has every resource available to it to make it happen. Did you know, for example, that trillions cubic meters of propane gas are being burned at the oil rigs here in US? Did you know that it is a good form of ecological, cheap and easy to transport fuel? But for some reason, entire LPG industry for general public is banned in US. Look here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/lpg.shtml and here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bifueltech.shtml

CNG is being used mostly for commercial transports and LPG is BBQ fuel. Why? Because you can't turn a lot of profit out of it. Its easily available, cheap, ecological and renewable (bio-gas), doesn't require new types of engines (only storage tanks and injection systems), but oil companies would go bankrupt in a matter of years and their profits would drop like a rock.

Electrical vehicles, plugins, etc - there you have Feds support, subsidies, ability to turn ton of money out of nothing. If interested, here is a good read on how we don't know how to recycle electrical batteries: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/bu...pagewanted=all Last fact - Tesla launched recycling for its own batteries only in 2011. Do you want to know what happened to those batteries before that - landfills.

I can tell you that after driving 100K miles on natural gas powered commuter in EU in warm and sub-zero temperatures. So, not every compromise is a good one. Leave 911 alone!

</rant>

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Oriental Life

What can I say? Just that propaganda is working, and now you believe what you've been told...
>

I am rubber and you are glue...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Oriental Life

What can I say? Just that propaganda is working, and now you believe what you've been told...

Pot calling the kettle black. There is extensive propaganda about Natural Gas and Propane too. For example, Natural Gas? ever heard of T. Boone Pickens?

You should post this in one of our alt fuel threads!

[Oriental Life]

Good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens

Didn't know about his corporation. Every day you learn something new. Thank you. When I moved to US, all I was able to find was this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogas_for_America

Unfortunately, I was not eligible to vote in 2008. But I'm not surprised that California protects its EV development strategy.

[blu_]

How did a car review thread turn into a political debate?

[Allch Chcar]

Oops, forgot the link.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ht=Natural+Gas

I forgot the alt fuel thread got buried.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by blu_

How did a car review thread turn into a political debate?

Over electrical power steering

[Alfie]

Every taxi in Korea has an LPG tank taking up 1/3 it's trunk!
(and there are MANY, like if N.Y.C. was the size of Florida)

In that country, if technology is new, good, and efficient it's available for ALL and at an affordable price- not like in North America! : (