Need AutoX Build Advice

[Darnold]

+1 for hankook rs3 as they are 140TW and amazing! I know you don't care about what class you end up in however it's nice to judge your pax time against comparable cars. If you can sneek into STX do it!

I ran in SSM (s2000 build) last year and was under built for the class and ultimately ended up spending this year planning for a new car to drive in stock class.

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by Darnold

+1 for hankook rs3 as they are 140TW and amazing! I know you don't care about what class you end up in however it's nice to judge your pax time against comparable cars. If you can sneek into STX do it!

The new RS3 is 200 treadwear to conform to the SCCA Street and ST class rules for next year, but are as good or better than the older 140 treadwear version. Other good tires that should be considered over the Pilot Super Sports are the BFG Rivals, Bridgestone RE11A, and Dunlop ZII Star Spec.

[raul]

Originally Posted by Thrustin

If you want a "well performing car", get appropriate tires . There are really only 4-6 tire options that are competitive. Those Michelins are not one of those tires.

There are 4.

Toyo R1R, BFG Rival, Dunlop Z2, Hankook RS3.

The RS3 was used by 90% of the STX field at nationals.

[Darnold]

Originally Posted by Miniata

The new RS3 is 200 treadwear to conform to the SCCA Street and ST class rules for next year, but are as good or better than the older 140 treadwear version. Other good tires that should be considered over the Pilot Super Sports are the BFG Rivals, Bridgestone RE11A, and Dunlop ZII Star Spec.

Good to know!

@muffinz how much actual experience do you have? It sounds like you're in somewhat the same predicament I am in (I don't even have a FT86 yet tho)!

I over built one of my s2000s for my own ability... It's prepped to be a monster but I can't control it and my inability makes me fall lower in the back and ultimately slowing down my learning process.

[tahdizzle]

I am tempted to run an RE11A, but the new star specs are equally tempting.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by muffinz

So my questions are:

1. what did i forget? (stainless brake lines & fluid probably - how important for autox though?)
2. am i stupid for getting a rear sway bar too?
3. what's going to break first with this aggressive suspension setup?

1. pads and fluid
2. no
3. you should be fine

The Michelins are a good learning tire...especially for the track. Good with heat and controllable, decently sticky. Yes the top 4 tires will be stickier for auto-x but it sounds like you're not shooting for a nationals win as much as you are out to go have fun.

Make sure you get a good alignment.

Then go get some seat time and enjoy.

- Andy

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by raul

There are 4.

Toyo R1R, BFG Rival, Dunlop Z2, Hankook RS3.

The RS3 was used by 90% of the STX field at nationals.

Toyo R1R no longer legal for next year due to the treadwear rule change. It was only really good in a couple of sizes and even then needed to be shaved for best performance. The Yokohama AD08R and Federal 595 RSR were also used on cars that trophied at Nationals, but both are also not legal for Street and ST classes for next year due to the treadwear ratings.

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by Darnold

Good to know!

@muffinz how much actual experience do you have? It sounds like you're in somewhat the same predicament I am in (I don't even have a FT86 yet tho)!

I over built one of my s2000s for my own ability... It's prepped to be a monster but I can't control it and my inability makes me fall lower in the back and ultimately slowing down my learning process.

@Darnold

I have done a handful of autoX in the stock brz, a handful of track days in a race spec miata, and spent way too much time in a gokart.

I would not be surprised if I end up in the same predicament as you with having an overbuilt car and underbuilt driving skill...but I am confident in my ability to perceive what the car is doing and how it is functioning so I'm hoping I don't handicap myself.

I have spent a lot of time reading about track driving techniques and watching videos. I also almost always request an instructor while I'm at HPDE events. I understand the basics well, I just need to put theory into practice with the soon-to-be new setup.

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

1. pads and fluid
2. no
3. you should be fine

The Michelins are a good learning tire...especially for the track. Good with heat and controllable, decently sticky. Yes the top 4 tires will be stickier for auto-x but it sounds like you're not shooting for a nationals win as much as you are out to go have fun.

Make sure you get a good alignment.

Then go get some seat time and enjoy.

- Andy

Thanks!

I know there is no right or wrong answer to a good suspension setup, but could you tell me if my approach will be suitable for a well balanced car?

~0.75 to 1" drop
~-2.0deg front camber
~wherever the back ends up (not sure if my coils are coming with rear camber plates)
stock caster / toe angles (really have no idea what these should be)
middle setting on my front 22mm swaybar
softest setting on my rear 18mm swaybar
corner balance

I plan on taking the car to Rudtners Racing out here on long island for the alignment and balancing. They specialize in german cars but they also have a tech that loves his subies and I am confident they will set my car up well.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by muffinz

Thanks!

I know there is no right or wrong answer to a good suspension setup, but could you tell me if my approach will be suitable for a well balanced car?

~0.75 to 1" drop
~-2.0deg front camber
~wherever the back ends up (not sure if my coils are coming with rear camber plates)
stock caster / toe angles (really have no idea what these should be)
middle setting on my front 22mm swaybar
softest setting on my rear 18mm swaybar
corner balance

I plan on taking the car to Rudtners Racing out here on long island for the alignment and balancing. They specialize in german cars but they also have a tech that loves his subies and I am confident they will set my car up well.

Drop sounds about right.

More camber up front will work better for auto-x, but past -2 it's a compromise for a DD.

Caster isn't adjustable unless your camber plates let you, in which case max it out.

0 toe up front. 0 in the rear or a tiny tiny bit of toe in.

Swaybar settings are a good start, but you may adjust as necessary after driving the car.

- Andy

[Darnold]

Originally Posted by muffinz

@Darnold

I have done a handful of autoX in the stock brz, a handful of track days in a race spec miata, and spent way too much time in a gokart.

I would not be surprised if I end up in the same predicament as you with having an overbuilt car and underbuilt driving skill...but I am confident in my ability to perceive what the car is doing and how it is functioning so I'm hoping I don't handicap myself.

I have spent a lot of time reading about track driving techniques and watching videos. I also almost always request an instructor while I'm at HPDE events. I understand the basics well, I just need to put theory into practice with the soon-to-be new setup.

Sounds like the best thing you could possibly do is to get an instructor to drive the car at an autox event and get a personal second opinion of what the car needs. The problem I see with coming to a forum like this is that your really not going to get someone who is able to give yo u the exact input you want.

I know what you're talking about with the experience, it's often extremely hard to drive a car at it's limits and not go over (I SURE CAN'T). I am either not going hard enough or go too far and have to recover.

Cover the basics since you're leaving stock class and have some fun.

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by Darnold

Sounds like the best thing you could possibly do is to get an instructor to drive the car at an autox event and get a personal second opinion of what the car needs. The problem I see with coming to a forum like this is that your really not going to get someone who is able to give yo u the exact input you want.

I know what you're talking about with the experience, it's often extremely hard to drive a car at it's limits and not go over (I SURE CAN'T). I am either not going hard enough or go too far and have to recover.

Cover the basics since you're leaving stock class and have some fun.

I will definitely have other people drive the car and give me their opinion.

I also felt like I was able to drive the race prepped miatas at the limit of grip much more easily than the brz. Not sure if that will translate into me being able to drive the brz at the limit after everything is upgraded...

[xwd]

Originally Posted by muffinz

Thanks!

I know there is no right or wrong answer to a good suspension setup, but could you tell me if my approach will be suitable for a well balanced car?

~0.75 to 1" drop
~-2.0deg front camber
~wherever the back ends up (not sure if my coils are coming with rear camber plates)
stock caster / toe angles (really have no idea what these should be)
middle setting on my front 22mm swaybar
softest setting on my rear 18mm swaybar
corner balance

I plan on taking the car to Rudtners Racing out here on long island for the alignment and balancing. They specialize in german cars but they also have a tech that loves his subies and I am confident they will set my car up well.

There are no rear camber plates, the only way to adjust rear camber is with adjustable upper or lower arms. Lower are cheaper and far more available. Chances are with just a .75-1" drop you'll be okay but different people get different results and you may also end up with more on one side than the other which isn't ideal. But it's another $500 and if you want to race in STX you need ones with urethane bushings.

Other than that everything looks fine, most don't run a larger rear sway bar or use the 16mm WRX one since you want more compliance in the rear for the diff to work effectively.

[tahdizzle]

I am going to say the opposite about having someone else drive your car and tell you what it needs.

Your driving style will differ and while those suggestions may mirror your opinions, they may not. And if they do mirror your opinion, they may not mirror them to the same degree or vice versa.

In autoX, we are all agreed that the stock primacies need to go.
But as far as suspension set up, the degree your car pushes in a corner, the amount of understeer/oversteer all depends on your driving style.

Are you the type to mash on the brake pedal in a straight line, or do you tend to trail brake....

in a nutshell, what someone says should be good for your car may not necissarily be good for your car.

I would drive the car, then take it to a good alignment shop and say "I Feel that the car oversteers/understeers too much", "I get a lot of push making a left/right turn.", etc and then let them try to tune your suspension to your needs and your driving style.