Innovate's Twin screw super charger

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Damn sure appears to be to at least the stage 1 kit.

The ESC puts down ~215/190. Actually probably puts down more low end torque than the innovate.

I disagree. IMO the only way that the ESC appears to match the Innovate stage 1 kit is when you compare the best-ever E85 ESC results to the lower stage 1 on 91 results.


The Phantom ESC requires E85 to reach your quoted numbers and a stage 1 Innovate on E85 is more like ~250/205. The Phantom ESC on 91 is only around ~200/180.

[Cards2323]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I disagree. IMO the only way that the ESC appears to match the Innovate stage 1 kit is when you compare the best-ever E85 ESC results to the lower stage 1 on 91 results.


The Phantom ESC requires E85 to reach your quoted numbers and a stage 1 Innovate on E85 is more like ~250/205. The Phantom ESC on 91 is only around ~200/180.

Also, isnt the ESC only activated at full throttle? You cant compare the two unless your driving around with the throttle floored everywhere..

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Cards2323

Also, isnt the ESC only activated at full throttle? You cant compare the two unless your driving around with the throttle floored everywhere..

Not only is the ESC only activated at WOT, it also runs out of juice if you keep using it. It's only good for short stop light races, which is precisely what the kind of noob who buys it wants it for.


I agree that the ESC shouldn't be compared to real FI and so does the Phantom ESC manufacturer but that doesn't stop it's fanboys. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction their claims would receive outside of their circle-jerk thread.

[tahdizzle]

Energizer Batteries to keep on going and going and going....

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I agree that the ESC shouldn't be compared to real FI and so does the Phantom ESC manufacturer but that doesn't stop it's fanboys. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction their claims would receive outside of their circle-jerk thread.

I like dis guy.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I disagree. IMO the only way that the ESC appears to match the Innovate stage 1 kit is when you compare the best-ever E85 ESC results to the lower stage 1 on 91 results.


The Phantom ESC requires E85 to reach your quoted numbers and a stage 1 Innovate on E85 is more like ~250/205. The Phantom ESC on 91 is only around ~200/180.

No that's the 1.5 dump pack actually. On e85 its ~225hp. The ESC does seem to make more torque a bit quicker though...

See or am I blind: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...39719&page=275

Let compare the stage 1 innovate to a 1.0 dump ESC on 91.

So approx. the stage 1 innovate would be what ~220/180 and the 1.0 dump ESC is ~200/180. Can we agree on that?

Also lets gets this straight I'm no fan boy. I would go rotrex or turbo if I where to go FI. I'm simply trying to compare the ESC to innovate.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Not only is the ESC only activated at WOT, it also runs out of juice if you keep using it. It's only good for short stop light races, which is precisely what the kind of noob who buys it wants it for.


I agree that the ESC shouldn't be compared to real FI and so does the Phantom ESC manufacturer but that doesn't stop it's fanboys. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction their claims would receive outside of their circle-jerk thread.

This is of course its downside WOT activation and only 60-90 secs on boost. And sure it sucks which is why I wouldnt buy it. Also why shouldn't it be compared to "real" FI it is forced induction 4-5 psi max. We all know this.

This is like saying nitrous shouldn't be compared either as it is WOT too. I mean fair enough I guess if thats how you want to play semantics. Belt or exhaust driven only then huh.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Not only is the ESC only activated at WOT, it also runs out of juice if you keep using it. It's only good for short stop light races, which is precisely what the kind of noob who buys it wants it for.


I agree that the ESC shouldn't be compared to real FI and so does the Phantom ESC manufacturer but that doesn't stop it's fanboys. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction their claims would receive outside of their circle-jerk thread.

So Audi Engineers must have no idea (those noobs!) since you know they're making electric turbos for their car here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-drive-review

Can no one here have a rational civil conversation?

[jebuwh]

That guy seems to get real butthurt about the ESC. I think its super cool honestly. Why freak out hating on it?

[Khorne]

@stevo585 you can use the edit button, you quoted one post in 3 replies.
Before you sperg out more he's not attack Electric superchargers in general, they are forced induction, BUT!
They really cannot be compared to a system where boost is there and usable all the time, a system that has the charge temps cooled (fuck a non intercooled system imo) and does not rely on a small and quickly usable power source. On a track a lone ESC is next to useless as boost will not be readily available and heat soak will be horrible with the phantom.

Your Audi example is stupid as it has turbos as well.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by stevo585

No that's the 1.5 dump pack actually. On e85 its ~225hp. The ESC does seem to make more torque a bit quicker though...

See or am I blind: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...39719&page=275

Let compare the stage 1 innovate to a 1.0 dump ESC on 91.

So approx. the stage 1 innovate would be what ~220/180 and the 1.0 dump ESC is ~200/180. Can we agree on that?

Also lets gets this straight I'm no fan boy. I would go rotrex or turbo if I where to go FI. I'm simply trying to compare the ESC to innovate.

Check your numbers again, you're still wrong even according to your quoted source. As for the real strength of the ESC, all that TQ between 2-4K rpm, most of us simply downshift which yields much better results.

Originally Posted by stevo585

This is of course its downside WOT activation and only 60-90 secs on boost. And sure it sucks which is why I wouldnt buy it. Also why shouldn't it be compared to "real" FI it is forced induction 4-5 psi max. We all know this.

This is like saying nitrous shouldn't be compared either as it is WOT too. I mean fair enough I guess if thats how you want to play semantics. Belt or exhaust driven only then huh.

IMO nitrous isn't directly comparable to FI and the ESC is comparable to nitrous.

Originally Posted by stevo585

So Audi Engineers must have no idea (those noobs!) since you know they're making electric turbos for their car here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-drive-review

Can no one here have a rational civil conversation?

How does an "electric turbo" work? I thought Audi was using an electric supercharger to augment low rpm power until the real turbochargers reach full boost?


Civil enough? Perhaps not but you were pretty rude in your third consecutive post...

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

That guy seems to get real butthurt about the ESC. I think its super cool honestly. Why freak out hating on it?

What? I do not have an ESC nor do I want one. I'm just trying to compare the two basic kits. If you don't want to ok.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Khorne

@stevo585 you can use the edit button, you quoted one post in 3 replies.
Before you sperg out more he's not attack Electric superchargers in general, they are forced induction, BUT!
They really cannot be compared to a system where boost is there and usable all the time, a system that has the charge temps cooled (fuck a non intercooled system imo) and does not rely on a small and quickly usable power source. On a track a lone ESC is next to useless as boost will not be readily available and heat soak will be horrible with the phantom.

Your Audi example is stupid as it has turbos as well.

Well the point was the low end torque aspect of the electric FI Audi is developing. I'm e85 NA so I either drive less than 25% (normal city driving) or WOT. I suppose you drive in that 50% range ok fine. People also do track the ESC, you aren't WOT the whole time of course and with the aux charger or whatever the quick charger is called ...its almost not relevant anymore. But blah blah you don't care.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Check your numbers again, you're still wrong even according to your quoted source. As for the real strength of the ESC, all that TQ between 2-4K rpm, most of us simply downshift which yields much better results.

IMO nitrous isn't directly comparable to FI and the ESC is comparable to nitrous.

How does an "electric turbo" work? I thought Audi was using an electric supercharger to augment low rpm power until the real turbochargers reach full boost?

Civil enough? Perhaps not but you were pretty rude in your third consecutive post...

No you are. Thanks for the response, tough crowd in here. I did not mean to be rude.

So please correct me. You could also use that downshift logic with a centrifugal kit...you know above 5-6k where they are much more powerful. The naming is just semantics right, call it whatever you want. And yes Audi is and that's my point the superior low end power of electric FI. To your other comment no one talks about nitrous so I have no choice haha otherwise I would debate them.

I was simply trying to compare a stage 1 innovate to a ESC. Apples to apples (maybe I failed on that, awaiting your correction to my dyno numbers).

If no one wants to compare them because one is full time and the other is on demand, ok, fine lets stop the debate if no one agrees the ESC is very close ~80% in peak numbers to a stage 1 kit.