Engine idle chirping (cricket) noise poll.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

EPA standards are not stringent. They pretty much suck, and those are more driven by the oil industry than top tier.

The proof's in the pudding. If you cared to seriously read the link I provided, you'd see gas chains have to pay about 30K to get tested, and have to demonstrate that their fuel does not have significant buildup over time or cause valves to stick. They have extraordinarily strict standards, established by automakers and not oil companies.

A link to anything that isn't third part is next to useless to me. That's like asking if Visconti is a reliable tuner and someone posting a link to his website saying 'Yes my stuff is reliable'.

I tried doing the homework, I could not find any third party studies, data, or information. Until I or someone else comes across something I will publicly call it bullshit.

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

So I did some digging and apparently e10 burns hotter than both e0 and e85, which both have been claimed fixes. If these claims are true, then obviously, too much heat is the culprit. This makes sense, since crickets cannot be heard on cold start, but rather after car is warmed up at idle and why the crickets aren't as prevalent in cold weather.

The two systems potentially at fault that have been discussed are the high pressure fuel pump and the injectors. Now, to me, injectors would make more sense based on the fact that they are being exposed to combustion heat much more directly than the fuel pump. Although when dealerships replace fuel pumps, the crickets do seem to go away temporarily, so maybe it is the fuel pump at fault? Any thoughts?

It is not obvious that the heat produced via combustion is the culprit. Did a quick google search and here's an SAE article from MIT displaying that ethanol has a lower flame temperature than gasoline and when mixed you get a fairly linear relationship: (Note it will load as a pdf file)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGE&cad=rja


I think it's fair to ask if the injectors may be the culprit and I don't have a hard answer other than referencing what others have posted. Quickest answer would be to look at a car that has crickets and make a cheap stethoscope out of a piece of hose and stick it up to the fuel pump and then as close to the injectors as you can get to try and locate the noise. If that isn't evidence enough then dig deeper.

[xRavenFRSx]

Originally Posted by rdgFRSred

What fuel system cleaner would you recommend?

Ive tried both STP and Lucas Oil complete Fuel System cleaner and they've both kept the crickets away for 400-500 miles. Theyre about 7-8$ a bottle. Try it, see if it works for you. Its hard to guarantee results, my car had about 5000 miles on the pump when I started using those. So It could be the cleaner or just the usage of the pump. Ive gone 800 miles since I used it last and have only heard them twice past 400 miles, im going to keep going without to see if the cleaner really was helping.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I tried doing the homework, I could not find any third party studies, data, or information. Until I or someone else comes across something I will publicly call it bullshit.

A failure on your part to research or comprehend simple concepts does not constitute "bullshit." You're the only one screaming about oil conspiracies amongst top auto manufacturers based on precisely nothing. Any mechanic worth their salt can tell the difference between someone who buys the cheapest shit and someone who buys decent gas. The additives may have fancy trademarks like Techron, but the science is solid.

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
Yeah, it's a mile long and hard to read, it must be bullshit. But I know it can be hard to read with your head in the sand. Why don't you go talk to a BMW mechanic and ask him the difference between the valves and injectors of owners who use cheap and top tier fuel. There is a reason BMW specifically warns not to use cheap gas and to stick to top tier in their cars, and it has nothing to do with enriching one oil producer over another considering numerous major competitors have the designation.

Also, not one automotive magazine has done anything other than recommend it. None have said it's a waste of money or oil conspiracy. Independent journalists have verified it as well. If you have evidence to the contrary, put up or shut up. In the mean time, why don't you do some light reading on logical fallacies: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance"]Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
Yeah, it's a mile long and hard to read, it must be bullshit. But I know it can be hard to read with your head in the sand. Why don't you go talk to a BMW mechanic and ask him the difference between the valves and injectors of owners who use cheap and top tier fuel.

Also, not one automotive magazine has done anything other than recommend it. None have said it's a waste of money or oil conspiracy. Independent journalists have verified it as well. If you have evidence to the contrary, put up or shut up. In the mean time, why don't you do some light reading on logical fallacies: Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read it before, I just read it again, those are a lot of nice words and a strong lack of published independently verified results, (and quite honestly not as long and complex as you seem to think it is). That's all I'm asking for, published, peer reviewed results, it's fine that you trust it, I don't and I'll state as much.

Someone has spent a lot of money to make this union of 'higher quality' but the only evidence is stored on their website? Sorry, fishy as hell to me, call me ignorant if you must, I'm just a fool on the internet after all.

Last time I spoke with a BMW mechanic he was pointing towards BMW reliability issues coming mostly from the extended service intervals (15k miles after all) and weak seals that could be destroyed with a fingernail, if we meet again I'll be sure to ask his opinion on gas stations and I will humbly admit my mistake if he sees truth to it. I think we've taken up enough space in this thread.



Edit: If anything I think per your wiki article I fall in the third category of 'true or false' that there is insufficient evidence at this time to prove the point.

[unsurety]

Originally Posted by Sayte

Soooo.. I heard from a friend that there is actually a new fuel pump part that was just recently released. I made an appointment with my Subaru dealership for this Friday. When I get some legit information I'll post up a new thread all about it. Maybe give a call to your dealerships to see if they know anything about this as well.

This is incorrect... unless the Subaru HPFP is different. Toyota has only had two versions of the HPFP. People have reported the revised pump making noise as well. First time it was billed out at our dealership was October 2013.

On the other hand, there are people who have gone 10-20k+ miles on the original and the crickets disappeared. YMMV.

[Sayte]

Originally Posted by unsurety

This is incorrect... unless the Subaru HPFP is different. Toyota has only had two versions of the HPFP. People have reported the revised pump making noise as well. First time it was billed out at our dealership was October 2013.

On the other hand, there are people who have gone 10-20k+ miles on the original and the crickets disappeared. YMMV.

I'll make sure to look at part numbers and revision dates and what not when I go there tomorrow.

[extrashaky]

Holy shit does that say the fuel pump costs $1300?

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

You can get 100% gasoline top tiers, they're just hard to find.

No, you can't. The standard actually says that to qualify as top tier gasoline, it MUST contain 8% to 10% ethanol. If it doesn't have ethanol in it, it doesn't meet the standard and is not top tier gasoline.

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

So I did some digging and apparently e10 burns hotter than both e0 and e85, which both have been claimed fixes.

It's not burning in the fuel pump.

If you're trying to say that the heat under the hood would be higher, I monitor my oil temp in Torque and have noticed no difference between E0 and E10. I doubt the temperature at which the fuel burns has anything to do with it.

[rdgFRSred]

I have 5700 miles on mine and it's getting louder but I'll try th system cleaners thankyou

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Holy shit does that say the fuel pump costs $1300?

Yeah I saw that too and puked a little. Before the FR-S, I used to buy whole cars for that much.

[xxBrun0xx]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

It's not burning in the fuel pump.

If you're trying to say that the heat under the hood would be higher, I monitor my oil temp in Torque and have noticed no difference between E0 and E10. I doubt the temperature at which the fuel burns has anything to do with it.

Guess my thought was this: Subaru/Toyota has tried revising the fuel pump. They've tried insulating the fuel pump with sound-deadening material. Nothing seems to have worked, even though insulation works great for other manufacturers. So what if the issue isn't the fuel pump at all, but rather the injectors, or something else in the system? Does the 15 wrx, which I believe has the same HP fuel pump but different DI, have crickets? From what I've been able to find on Nasioc and wrxclub, nothing yet, but I guess time will tell.

Not sure if possible, but has anyone tried a different hp fuel pump?

[xRavenFRSx]

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

Guess my thought was this: Subaru/Toyota has tried revising the fuel pump. They've tried insulating the fuel pump with sound-deadening material. Nothing seems to have worked, even though insulation works great for other manufacturers. So what if the issue isn't the fuel pump at all, but rather the injectors, or something else in the system? Does the 15 wrx, which I believe has the same HP fuel pump but different DI, have crickets? From what I've been able to find on Nasioc and wrxclub, nothing yet, but I guess time will tell.

Not sure if possible, but has anyone tried a different hp fuel pump?

Its not their fuel pump, they get them from another company. Its not a matter of it being an issue, its just a characteristic of hpfp's. If it makes you feel better, google noisy hpfp and see how many pages of forum post you find from various cars. Not all are as noisy or as noticeable as the ones our cars are using, but its nothing unusual. We're at the point where even if Toyota gets a better one they can use, you wont see them for our cars. Youll probably see them on the next gen if they do make production. Im sure the 86 community will find our own solution, hopefully the one used in the 15 WRX is it, but I doubt youll ever get any more support for it from Toyota.


In reality, we all bought a first generation car. Most of us understood that we would be essentially beta testers, and that there was going to be issues that we may not get complete support for.


Not all of that was directed at you, but it seemed like a good place to add for the people who are still very concerned and think we'll be seeing a response from Toyota about it.

[Prog]

Originally Posted by xRavenFRSx

In reality, we all bought a first generation car. Most of us understood that we would be essentially beta testers, and that there was going to be issues that we may not get complete support for.

No. We are not "beta testers." We are driving production cars and it would be completely asinine to expect anything other than the proper customer service we deserve.

[xRavenFRSx]

Originally Posted by Prog

No. We are not "beta testers." We are driving production cars and it would be completely asinine to expect anything other than the proper customer service we deserve.

I don't mean as far as serious problems go, of course they are expected to take care of those. But for the many noises and imperfections that aren't causing mechanical issues with the car, that's to be expected of a first generation car. Theres a varied level of wear and use they cant simulate in research and testing. Its crazy to think theyre going to go through and fix the long list of these noises and imperfections on 100,000+ cars. Theyre getting info from dealers for these problems that were reporting, and theyre using this to make a more refined 2nd gen car.

[Sayte]

Finally got the part number and what not. It appears to be the same one that was referenced back near page 135ish of this thread. Whatevs, my crickets always go away when I used Chevron gas, so I'm not to upset if they return somehow.