Best $3k coilovers? Sachs, Moton, MCS, AST, JRZ.

[Yui-Chan]

- What your experience level is
Doesn't matter...this is like saying ill rec a shtty coilover to the beginner and a better one to int/advanced. The best and your fave coilover is still the best/fave regardless of skill.

- What wheels tires sizes are on the car
Everyone uses the same sizes 225-245 and 17s et35-45. Doesn't matter. Your fave CO choice is still your favorite regardless of tire/wheel size honestly. Custom rates and damping dependent.

- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above)
This is a question for choosing desired rates, damping and CO tuning. Your fave CO will still be the same regardless of if one prefers more understeer, neutral or oversteer.

- If there is Aero on the car
DDs usually don't have race aero. Even if it did, your fave CO choices would be the same.

- If there is FI on the car
Also, FI or not, your fave coilover choice will still be the same.

- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.)
Same thing....doesn't change the choice of your fave CO.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by CSG David

More importantly, you'll need to consider manufacturers having service centers in the local region that can service and build specific valving for your suspension kits with an acceptable turnaround time.

BTW, SACHS has been around for awhile. If we have a chance, we would like to get some testing done for them on this side of the world to prove their worth.

Yes...another reason why I don't want certain tuner coilovers. Tein can only work on Tein. And I think it may be the same for a few other brands. I'm unsure.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Yes...another reason why I don't want certain tuner coilovers. Tein can only work on Tein. And I think it may be the same for a few other brands. I'm unsure.

Not necessarily. We work with TEIN and JRZ because they are local, but if we wanted custom valved Bilstein, MCS, SACHS, and Penske, we have a guy that's still local to us as well...he just happens to be one of the most sought out suspension builders in the nation too. Why do we choose to stick with JRZ if we have JRZ or TEIN if we have TEIN? It's because they are the experts in their specific damper. Turnaround times are very good and our specified valving has been successful at competing against many other "high end" offerings. Application is important so specifying your exact experience, setup, and goals are important in dialing in the proper setup for your project scope.

[Nhil]

This thread is painful

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Very humble of you *sarcasm*

Sounds like all you're doing is talking sht and being pretentious.

"Limiting" myself to those 5 coilovers is flawed? Limiting myself to the usual tein, kw, etc. coilovers actually sounds a lot more "limited" to me.

OK so I'm talking shit here... I'm glad you got that out of the way.

Let me not talk shit for a moment and respond to your below post:

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That exactly why I started this thread - so people more experienced with those coilovers/brands/models can give me help/insight...and not the other way around.

Rates/gas pressures/tires? I already stated...it's a dd with monthly track time..OBVIOUSLY, I won't be running r comps and will be a slow street dd car. It will have the exact same popular tires as everyone else (rs3, direzza, etc); not really a question at this point. Gas pressure? Sounds like you're trying to belittle the customer with technical specs only a damper engineer would know how to even use. I have no desire to answer this question since it sounds like a question based on animosity and I am no engineer. Rates? It depends and it subjective obviously; but I would want to hover around 8k-10k.

....Im not some kind of race team, so tuning and experimenting with and having many different springs/rates, shocks with diff damping, pressures, etc in the garage isn't something I'm even remotely close to doing in a million yrs I'm nothing but a wknd warrior and hobbyist. Again, it's a dd with monthly track use...obviously that means it's slow, it's not 400hp, it's not super duper tracked out stripped caged, etc etc.

Branding isn't being limiting.... it's trust. And I don't trust many tuner coilovers based on history.

My OP is simple really...what are Your favorite brands and models out of those 5 brands and why?

Not me nor my opnion...but, YOURS.

WHY do you need all the adjustment? If you aren't setting up coilovers for each type of track and driving condition, why would you need anything more than fixed dual adjustment? Are you paying someone to dial in the suspension for you? What about your ability would need the crazy adjustments of those high-end coilovers?

You aren't a race team. I suggested Ohlins RT would be okay to meet your needs (even if you label them as "tuner"), you blow me off like I'm talking shit about your limiting choices.

If you were truly someone open to a quality coilover, the first thing you would do is not limit your choices.

Again: I run Ohlins RT. I am really confused as to why you want anything more than simple, quality 1-way adjustment that will do well for both street and track use.
... but I'm sure I'm just only talking shit at this point, as far as you're concerned.

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

- What your experience level is
Doesn't matter...this is like saying ill rec a shtty coilover to the beginner and a better one to int/advanced. The best and your fave coilover is still the best/fave regardless of skill.

- What wheels tires sizes are on the car
Everyone uses the same sizes 225-245 and 17s et35-45. Doesn't matter. Your fave CO choice is still your favorite regardless of tire/wheel size honestly. Custom rates and damping dependent.

- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above)
This is a question for choosing desired rates, damping and CO tuning. Your fave CO will still be the same regardless of if one prefers more understeer, neutral or oversteer.

- If there is Aero on the car
DDs usually don't have race aero. Even if it did, your fave CO choices would be the same.

- If there is FI on the car
Also, FI or not, your fave coilover choice will still be the same.

- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.)
Same thing....doesn't change the choice of your fave CO.

All of these things matter... it would have been much easier for you to type out what you have, rather than these (imo) non-constructive responses, because a lot of statements are false.

I'd bet money that you'd spin out in a car that I set up for myself.

Not everyone uses tires in the 225-245 range.

My favorite coilover will NOT be the same for all spring rates.

Have you seen how many cars in socal have front lips? Wings? It's a LOT. I'd say at least 25% of the FRS/BRZs I see at meets have some soft of aftermarket aero. These all impact how the suspension is tuned.

Power output will affect suspension tuning, which will affect my damper choice. Have you ever seen a mustang squat when it's going WOT? Know what controls that squat? The dampers.

Supporting mods will change my coilover choice. THey can alter geometry, allow me a longer stroke length, etc.

Since clearly my (at least what i believe to be) educated opinion doesn't matter, I'll just step out now.

[jebuwh]

What is this? I mean really.

He asks about high end coilovers.

A shop who is very experienced in high end coilovers responds to help make decisions.

He babbles about his fav co, and refuses to give any info.

Everyone reading becomes less intelligent.

Am I right?

[Griever423]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

What is this? I mean really.

He asks about high end coilovers.

A shop who is very experienced in high end coilovers responds to help make decisions.

He babbles about his fav co, and refuses to give any info.

Everyone reading becomes less intelligent.

Am I right?

He seems to be a typical "car guy." Knows the big brand names and wants to be different for the sake of being different, that kind of thing. His responses to the professionals actually trying to help him say as much.

The kind of money you're talking about throwing down for a car that will barely qualify as a weekend warrior is a waste. You don't NEED that kind of adjustability for your purposes.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

- What your experience level is
Doesn't matter...this is like saying ill rec a shtty coilover to the beginner and a better one to int/advanced. The best and your fave coilover is still the best/fave regardless of skill.

- What wheels tires sizes are on the car
Everyone uses the same sizes 225-245 and 17s et35-45. Doesn't matter. Your fave CO choice is still your favorite regardless of tire/wheel size honestly. Custom rates and damping dependent.

- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above)
This is a question for choosing desired rates, damping and CO tuning. Your fave CO will still be the same regardless of if one prefers more understeer, neutral or oversteer.

- If there is Aero on the car
DDs usually don't have race aero. Even if it did, your fave CO choices would be the same.

- If there is FI on the car
Also, FI or not, your fave coilover choice will still be the same.

- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.)
Same thing....doesn't change the choice of your fave CO.

You're missing the point entirely. There is no single one size fits all "this is the best for all possible scenarios" answer when you're talking about suspension. There's a reason that there are many GOOD options out there, and it's because not everyone is after the same thing.

Until you can provide useful information, you're not going to get useful answers.

Would you go to a doctor and ask what his favorite medicine is, but not tell him what is wrong with you, and expect to get the right prescription? Same difference.

Why don't you just say what your favorite is so everyone can tell you you're right and move on?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Griever423

He seems to be a typical "car guy." Knows the big brand names and wants to be different for the sake of being different, that kind of thing. His responses to the professionals actually trying to help him say as much.

The kind of money you're talking about throwing down for a car that will barely qualify as a weekend warrior is a waste. You don't NEED that kind of adjustability for your purposes.

I think the factory suspension has more R&D associated with it than any other company mentioned here combined for this platform. With that logic, OEM suspension is the most high end suspension available.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I think the factory suspension has more R&D associated with it than any other company mentioned here combined for this platform. With that logic, OEM suspension is the most high end suspension available.

Hey Dave, I have my stock shocks in great condition complete with top hats. 10k miles, wanna buy? I'll bring to Buttonwillow on Sat and deliver free of charge.

-alex

[Racecomp Engineering]

Experience level is very important in two ways:

1. Driving experience - If you've never been on the track before, then dampers are not what's going to be holding you back. You won't gain anything from having fancy $3k dampers and would gain more from just focusing on driving and learning. Tein, KW, Penske, JRZ, stock, whatever...you'll be slow and you won't be able to blame the dampers. If this is the case, you need an alignment, brake pads, brake fluid, and seat time. That's it.

2. Set-up experience - Have you set up a 2 way damper before? For some a simple 1 way damper is all they need and fiddling with 2 or 3 knobs is a headache. You can get help from an experienced shop if you purchase from them or pay them, but it helps if they have experience and carry the brand you're interested in. As mentioned, few carry Sachs. This also compounds with #1...if you're at the track and spending all your time chasing your ass trying to set-up dampers and making 0 progress...well that sucks and you've wasted your time and money.

I'm not saying you don't have this experience and neither is CSG. We just don't know. You could be Niki Lauda. You could be an 18 year old kid who just got their car and is learning to drive stick.

As for the other stuff, I agree to a limited extent but tire choice is huge and helps us gauge how serious you are about the track. Also, DD with monthly track time can mean a lot of different things. Many swap in r-comps at the track for example.

Intended spring rates (which is tire dependent) does make a difference because the higher end coilovers deal with higher spring rates differently. I'd have no qualms DD-ing a JRZ RS1 with 12k spring rates, but I personally wouldn't really enjoy that with an AST 4100.

- Andy

[solidONE]

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Hey Dave, I have my stock shocks in great condition complete with top hats. 10k miles, wanna buy? I'll bring to Buttonwillow on Sat and deliver free of charge.

-alex

I'm in for five finger discount.