Best $3k coilovers? Sachs, Moton, MCS, AST, JRZ.

[Yui-Chan]

The CSG guys seem to be a bit pessimistic on my desired coilovers at my low budget. It's cool and I understand - it's business ...I'm guessing they just want to push their brands, product, sponsors and maybe don't deal with the brands in my poll. Not interested in Tein, nor Ohlins RT, nor KW (nor anything else I didn't list really).

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Yes...the Sachs def look good. Doesn't the high end porsche GT3 cars use Sachs and use Sachs for their professional cars?

AST being sold at Vorshlag looks very nice too and in the $3k range.

Would love to hear more about the lower priced Motons though

Yeah the GT3 cars do, and lots of professional race cars run SACHS suspension; including the European Truck Racing Championship series trucks. How cool is that?! haha

There's more information on their actually racing suspensions here: http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/produ...g_systems.html

[Shark_Bait88]

The other cool thing about getting the SACHS coilovers, you'd likely end up being one of two people in the US (and one of a handful in the world) running an FR-S/GT86/BRZ with SACHS coilovers. lol

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

The CSG guys seem to be a bit pessimistic on my desired coilovers at my low budget. It's cool and I understand - it's business ...I'm guessing they just want to push their brands, product, sponsors and maybe don't deal with the brands in my poll. Not interested in Tein, nor Ohlins RT, nor KW (nor anything else I didn't list really).

Let me make it clear so that there is no confusion.

We have ZERO brand loyalties. We sell products that work well, and as (or better) than advertised by the respective manufacturers. Notice that there are zero sponsor stickers or branding on our car. We buy all the product that is on our shop cars, and do not accept sponsorships or free products from manufacturers when we are testing.

In our experience, we've found that a high priced product doesn't always mean that it's a high end product, but a low priced product almost certainly is a low end product. This is where our testing and lack of brand loyalty comes in. We will gladly sell you a Tein SRC, but we will not sell you Tein S-tech springs. We're not fans of the Ohlins R&T, but will gladly work with you on a TTX setup. At this time, we cannot recommend AST due to shaky distribution on AST's end.

The cars we set up speak for themselves. If we could maintain the same level of quality and performance with a lower priced product, we would be all for it; it would allow us to reach a wider audience.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Your reasoning/premise for limiting to those 5 coilovers is flawed, as far as I see.

-alex

Very humble of you *sarcasm*

Sounds like all you're doing is talking sht and being pretentious.

"Limiting" myself to those 5 coilovers is flawed? Limiting myself to the usual tein, kw, etc. coilovers actually sounds a lot more "limited" to me.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Purpose - monthly track trips, DD and occasional autox. DD doesn't need to be plush nor comfortable at all. I don't mind a not perfectly comfortable "because racecar" too stiff DD ride one bit..and would rather have that than a luxurious wussy ride on a dd.

Is this why you took the ohlins R&T out? they are at the top of my list but I am willing to give up some track performance for a better ride since it is primarily DD, autoX once a month, no track days yet.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

"Limiting" myself to those 5 coilovers is flawed? Limiting myself to the usual tein, kw, etc. coilovers actually sounds a lot more "limited" to me.

Perhaps you can clarify with the specific models from each of the brands you've chosen that you're considering.

Also, please indicate the spring rates and gas pressures, as well as tires you intend on running, and perhaps we can be of more use to you in terms of feedback.

Simply picking based on "brand" is rather limiting, IMO.

E.g. I love Hankook RS3s, but I won't run a Hankook V12 Evo. I love my Honda S2000, but I won't buy a Honda Accord, but I would buy a Honda (Acura) NSX.

The more information you provide us, the more information we can provide back. If you make a very generalized post, we can only give a very generalized answer.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

The other cool thing about getting the SACHS coilovers, you'd likely end up being one of two people in the US (and one of a handful in the world) running an FR-S/GT86/BRZ with SACHS coilovers. lol

Yes..they are sexy

I don't think it would be too hard to get them in the states. I'm sure there's a couple distributors here that can get them for us, since porsche and bmw guys have been getting them for a while already.

I think the reason many 86s don't have them yet is.... well, their info was only released a few months ago lol

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Yes..they are sexy

I don't think it would be too hard to get them in the states. I'm sure there's a couple distributors here that can get them for us, since porsche and bmw guys have been getting them for a while already.

I think the reason many 86s don't have them yet is.... well, their info was only released a few months ago lol

I think the real reason why nobody has them over here is because, outside of the Euro crowd (especially BMW), most people in the US haven't heard of SACHS or ZF. Brand recognition in the US is very low, although in Europe and many parts of Asia they are one of the most recognized and highest respected brands.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

Yes..they are sexy

I don't think it would be too hard to get them in the states. I'm sure there's a couple distributors here that can get them for us, since porsche and bmw guys have been getting them for a while already.

I think the reason many 86s don't have them yet is.... well, their info was only released a few months ago lol

More importantly, you'll need to consider manufacturers having service centers in the local region that can service and build specific valving for your suspension kits with an acceptable turnaround time.

BTW, SACHS has been around for awhile. If we have a chance, we would like to get some testing done for them on this side of the world to prove their worth.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by CSG David

More importantly, you'll need to consider manufacturers having service centers in the local region that can service and build specific valving for your suspension kits with an acceptable turnaround time.

BTW, SACHS has been around for awhile. If we have a chance, we would like to get some testing done for them on this side of the world to prove their worth.

There are lots of shops that are very familiar with the SACHS brand, not to mention a ZF Race Engineering office in Michigan. You may have to take the vehicle to a Euro shop, but you can definitely get the work done. More and more import shops should hopefully become familiar with the products though, especially since SACHS is OE on the 2015 Toyobarus for dampers.

Yep, been around 100 years in 2015. Not quite sure about getting the testing done out here though. Germans can be difficult to work with. lol

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

There are lots of shops that are very familiar with the SACHS brand, not to mention a ZF Race Engineering office in Michigan. You may have to take the vehicle to a Euro shop, but you can definitely get the work done. More and more import shops should hopefully become familiar with the products though, especially since SACHS is OE on the 2015 Toyobarus for dampers.

Yep, been around 100 years in 2015. Not quite sure about getting the testing done out here though. Germans can be difficult to work with. lol

Not everybody knows what they're doing when it comes to working the internals on the damper. Knowing someone who can do exactly what you're asking for is definitely a gem you'll want to stick to. With that said, southern California have their set of experts so you shouldn't be worried.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Perhaps you can clarify with the specific models from each of the brands you've chosen that you're considering.

Also, please indicate the spring rates and gas pressures, as well as tires you intend on running, and perhaps we can be of more use to you in terms of feedback.

Simply picking based on "brand" is rather limiting, IMO.

E.g. I love Hankook RS3s, but I won't run a Hankook V12 Evo. I love my Honda S2000, but I won't buy a Honda Accord, but I would buy a Honda (Acura) NSX.

The more information you provide us, the more information we can provide back. If you make a very generalized post, we can only give a very generalized answer.

That exactly why I started this thread - so people more experienced with those coilovers/brands/models can give me help/insight...and not the other way around.

Rates/gas pressures/tires? I already stated...it's a dd with monthly track time..OBVIOUSLY, I won't be running r comps and will be a slow street dd car. It will have the exact same popular tires as everyone else (rs3, direzza, etc); not really a question at this point. Gas pressure? Sounds like you're trying to belittle the customer with technical specs only a damper engineer would know how to even use. I have no desire to answer this question since it sounds like a question based on animosity and I am no engineer. Rates? It depends and it subjective obviously; but I would want to hover around 8k-10k.

....Im not some kind of race team, so tuning and experimenting with and having many different springs/rates, shocks with diff damping, pressures, etc in the garage isn't something I'm even remotely close to doing in a million yrs I'm nothing but a wknd warrior and hobbyist. Again, it's a dd with monthly track use...obviously that means it's slow, it's not 400hp, it's not super duper tracked out stripped caged, etc etc.

Branding isn't being limiting.... it's trust. And I don't trust many tuner coilovers based on history.

My OP is simple really...what are Your favorite brands and models out of those 5 brands and why?

Not me nor my opnion...but, YOURS.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That exactly why I started this thread - so people more experienced with those coilovers/brands/models can give me help/insight...and not the other way around.

Rates/gas pressures/tires? I already stated...it's a dd with monthly track time..OBVIOUSLY, I won't be running r comps and will be a slow street dd car. It will have the exact same popular tires as everyone else (rs3, direzza, etc); not really a question at this point. Gas pressure? Sounds like you're trying to belittle the customer with technical specs only a damper engineer would know how to even use. I have no desire to answer this question since it sounds like a question based on animosity and I am no engineer. Rates? It depends and it subjective obviously; but I would want to hover around 8k-10k.

....Im not a race team, so tuning and experimenting with and having many different rates, shocks with diff damping, pressures, etc in the garage isn't something I'm doing. Again, it's a dd with monthly track use.

Branding isn't being limiting.... it's trust. And I don't trust many tuner coilovers based on history.

My OP is simple really...what are Your favorite brands and models out of those 5 brands and why?

Not me nor my opnion...but, YOURS.

And, if you can't share your opinions on those particular COs or want to belittle me because you have no experience or good things to say about them (or want to push Teins, KWs, etc)....then, no need to post.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all"

If you're looking at "high end" brand coilovers I do expect you to have some idea of what you're looking for. What I really expect, is that you've already figured out what spring rates you want (not just an overall range, but a range of rates per axle), based on the tires and supporting mods you'd be using.

Going back to your OP, the only brand I can recommend is JRZ. JRZ does not offer a model that fits into your $3k budget, unless you want RS-1 in damper-only form. I do not recommend you get the RS-1.

Your brand choices and price range are, for all intents and purposes, mutually exclusive.

I ask specific questions, because I makes specific recommendations, tailored to the specific person asking them. I do not make generic, blanket recommendations that you see spewed by so many different "sales reps" at these "tuner shops".

I need to know exactly what you want to do with your car, exactly what is already on your car, and how you plan on expanding your modification list in the future, to make a specific recommendation(s) that will align with your goals and needs.

I have no idea:
- What your experience level is
- What wheel sizes (size, offset) are on the car
- What tires (type, size) are being used on the car
- What kind of car balance you are looking to achieve (which is why I asked that spring rate and gas pressure question; based on this I can make educated guesses on most of the above)
- If there is Aero on the car
- If there is FI on the car
- If there are already supporting suspension mods on the car (bushings, arms, camber plates, etc.)

If you truly want help, help me help you, by providing me as MUCH information as you can. I'm here to help you make educated choices that best suit YOU, not to tell you what you want to hear.


If you don't have the desire to learn to set up your own dampers, you may be better off buying a lowe end mode with an off the shelf solution; most of the options you list require you to make some choices when the dampers are being built. If you are willing to learn how the different adjustments work and their effect on handling, then we are here to support you.