Anyone blown a stock boosted motor yet?

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by King Tut

So I guess I decided to compile the list today:

If anyone knows of any others, please post them up.

Anychance you could add the aprox hp/torq and/or psi (even if a guess) around the time of detonation? From what I'm reading it seems like everyone here was pushing the car 350+ or rather high.

[Cal3000]

If it makes anyone feel better, I'm at 40k boosted miles @330whp dynojet Flex Fuel e85. No catch can, no oil cooler.
63k miles on the motor

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

If it makes anyone feel better, I'm at 40k boosted miles @330whp dynojet Flex Fuel e85. No catch can, no oil cooler.
63k miles on the motor

any track miles?

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by glamcem

any track miles?

None at all. lol. But it is driven hard just about everyday.

[AZFA20]

Engines coming out tomorrow. Still runs but developed what sounds like a rod knock seconds after throwing a cam CEL. Was only doing about 45mph not in boost. I was actually doing cam function diagnosis when it failed. Literally just finished putting an engine in another FR-S yesterday that had catastrophic failure in cylinder #1 too haha. Sadly I am getting very fast at pulling FA20s and rebuilding them.

[raytrix]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

If it makes anyone feel better, I'm at 40k boosted miles @330whp dynojet Flex Fuel e85. No catch can, no oil cooler.
63k miles on the motor

How many miles was not boosted?

[TemeCal]

Originally Posted by raytrix

How many miles was not boosted?

63k (total) - 40k (boosted) = 23k (NA)

[raytrix]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

63k (total) - 40k (boosted) = 23k (NA)

That's quite a good amount boosted. Not bad.

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

If it makes anyone feel better, I'm at 40k boosted miles @330whp dynojet Flex Fuel e85. No catch can, no oil cooler.
63k miles on the motor

What kit?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

Engines coming out tomorrow. Still runs but developed what sounds like a rod knock seconds after throwing a cam CEL. Was only doing about 45mph not in boost. I was actually doing cam function diagnosis when it failed. Literally just finished putting an engine in another FR-S yesterday that had catastrophic failure in cylinder #1 too haha. Sadly I am getting very fast at pulling FA20s and rebuilding them.

So if you've repaired a decent # of them, what would you say is a leading cause of the extravagant rod knock? Is it the bad VVT design or is it a part that's just not holding up to what it should be?

[AZFA20]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

So if you've repaired a decent # of them, what would you say is a leading cause of the extravagant rod knock? Is it the bad VVT design or is it a part that's just not holding up to what it should be?

Well this particular instance I think was just coincidence more than anything that the cam CEL came on seconds before hand. The engine is out and stripped on an engine stand but I didn't have time today to completely disassemble it to see all the dirty details yet. I can say that it is cylinder 3 & 4 rod bearings on this one and since there is a significant amount of bearing material in the pan it's pretty likely the bank 1 actuators are now full of bearing material too resulting in the cam CEL for bank 1, just before audible failure. Tomorrow I will know whether the crank journals survived or not.

The bearing failures are most likely just a result of an inadequate oiling system and oil distribution design on this particular engine for anything more than stock-300whp ish. The oil pressures are pretty damn low at the mains and rods especially compounded with heat. AZ's temp is hot so no secret that we have to overcome higher than average conditions in the summer months. When the pressures are low and the compression forces are much higher with boosted power, the more likely you are to collapse the hydrodymanic oil film and crush the oil wedge in the bearings. This is followed by metal on metal bearing to journal contact. Unfortunately there really isn't any affordable option to combat the oiling issue at this time that I am aware of unless you convert to full blown dry sump which again is not really practical for an 86 that is not a dedicated race car. I may personally implement an Accusump but even that is not the best option for a daily driver.

The previous engine I was working on before this was most certainly piston failure in the wrist pin area which then resulted in a broken rod and then total cylinder destruction. It's difficult to say for sure though because the piston is in literally a million pieces. Total block loss

Prior to that engine was another rod bearing failure that then took the rest of that piston assembly with it, total block loss.

Prior to that one was rod failure, again total block loss.

As you can see they seem to exhibit different failure points but most are catastrophic failure. I got super lucky with mine.

I still have some of these engine guts laying around so if you guys want I can take pictures. Oh and I have had 2 now that have come in that also tossed the rockers/followers. The one that had a piston failure tossed 4 of them, 2 on each bank to be specific. This was a second hand result I believe of the piston failure though causing erratic crank rotation for a split second in addition to having weak stock valve springs. The other I think just from floating the valves with too much boost for stock spring pressures.

I wish there was more of a pattern though. Something I did notice on my own was irregular or deformed DI seals which will be replaced. Totally unrelated to the failure but noticed none the less during disassembly. It wasn't having an effect on the engine yet but I imagine over time they would have worsened. This is even after living on the revised ROMs since they were first implemented. All of these engines have also been <25k.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

The bearing failures are most likely just a result of an inadequate oiling system and oil distribution design on this particular engine for anything more than stock-300whp ish. The oil pressures are pretty damn low at the mains and rods especially compounded with heat. AZ's temp is hot so no secret that we have to overcome higher than average conditions in the summer months. When the pressures are low and the compression forces are much higher with boosted power, the more likely you are to collapse the hydrodymanic oil film and crush the oil wedge in the bearings. This is followed by metal on metal bearing to journal contact. Unfortunately there really isn't any affordable option to combat the oiling issue at this time that I am aware of unless you convert to full blown dry sump which again is not really practical for an 86 that is not a dedicated race car. I may personally implement an Accusump but even that is not the best option for a daily driver.

I still have some of these engine guts laying around so if you guys want I can take pictures.

Were those engine owners using oil coolers and a thicker oil weight? Usually larger oil pans, a tad bit thicker weight and the cooler should do enough to keep the viscosity at a decent PSI level in those bearings. Hopefully. If it's not then there's an inadiquate oiling system that needs to be addressed ASAP by MAP or FBM or someone.

Oh and P.S. Everyone loves pictures of blown up car pistons

[AZFA20]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Were those engine owners using oil coolers and a thicker oil weight? Usually larger oil pans, a tad bit thicker weight and the cooler should do enough to keep the viscosity at a decent PSI level in those bearings. Hopefully. If it's not then there's an inadiquate oiling system that needs to be addressed ASAP by MAP or FBM or someone.

Oh and P.S. Everyone loves pictures of blown up car pistons

Yep oil coolers were in use. Element Tuning is the only one I know of who is actively working through this oiling issue and as of today has shown positive results from some proprietary internal modifications and the use of an Accusump. They are now moving on to a dry sump system as well.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

Yep oil coolers were in use. Element Tuning is the only one I know of who is actively working through this oiling issue and as of today has shown positive results from some proprietary internal modifications and the use of an Accusump. They are now moving on to a dry sump system as well.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723

What does the accusump actually fix? Or is it more of a bandaid?