2014-2015 Winter Tire & Wheel Discussion

[jvincent]

Crazy Europeans, they want to regulate everything. If it comes down to noise vs grip, I'll take grip.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

My choice is for good bare road performance with good ice braking second. Snow traction is not as important because driving skill can compensate for lack of traction in snow, not so on ice. Trouble is ice tires and high performance tires are at opposite ends of the choices.

And by connecting the dots... you complaining about poor winter traction because of your choice of performance snows means you've just admitted you're a bad driver.

If you really believe that driving skill is a substitute for a proper snow/ice tire in anything more than a light dusting of snow you should really just give up on life.

[Black Tire]

Just found out that Walmart carries the Nitto NT-SN2 Winter and Continental ExtremeWinterContact tires in 205/55R16. You can ship to a store and not pay shipping, and they have good prices.

[Shark_Bait88]

Wow! Lots of great information here, that I've definitely been in need of since I moved to Illinois this past January. Survived this last winter in my RWD T4R w/ nice all-seasons (can't remember brand off hand right now). Figuring on going with a set of used Subaru wheels, but the whole winter tire thing is new to me. I'm an Arizona native. Having only had one winter in the Chicago area, I honestly don't know exactly what I should be looking for in terms of snow vs. ice capability.

Anyone from the area that can weigh in on what I should be looking for in terms of a winter tire based on average conditions here? My work commute is about 6 miles down Milwaukee, so it's usually plowed and in "decent" shape. However, I will also be doing a fair number of trips from Libertyville down to Batavia to help work on a LeMons car over winter. Any and all input is greatly appreciated!

[Ferrari]

Originally Posted by Canehda

I had the bridgestones last winter with winters on and they were ok up here in Canada however this year I am selling the bridgestones and switching to the Nokians. I had Nokians last winter on my Honda SUV and they were by far the best winter tires I have ever owned with experience using the Michelin's, Hankooks and toyos. Last year when I attended a few rally events I noticed on light/medium snow a lot of the nonprofessional teams were using the Nokians as well. Just my two cents though, my tire size was 205/50/R16 and my turn in was very nice for such a lightweight car!
and in terms of rims, steelies are all you need for 16" wheels if buying new but look on the Subaru forums for guys selling old wrx wheels for dirt cheap.

Nice! I just bought a set of 2002 WRX alloys and Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s. This will be my first winter with the BRZ...

[Black Tire]

Just found a site for ice braking tests for European winter tires. Great information, even if not all the tires are available here. Look at the unstudied Nordic tires for rankings on some of the tires discussed here. I think the Continental ContiVikingContact is just the ExtremeWinterContact by another name. This should give a good idea of the best ice tires.

http://safewintertyre.eu/en

Edit 2014-09-12: What?! I just tried the site again and found that it is CLOSED until spring 2015. I guess you need to do your winter tire research early, or not at all. If I had known, I would have archived the site so that forum users could see the information. Perhaps this is the result of an agreement between this site and the tire manufacturers or dealers.

[Black Tire]

Probably old news, but Consumer Reports was using the twins for winter testing in 2013:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...-ice/index.htm

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ings/index.htm

[Black Tire]

Good winter tire information and opinions from Canada:

APA (Automobile Protection Association) Canada

2013-2014 APA Passenger Vehicle Winter Tire Reviews

2013-2014 APA Performance Winter Tire Reviews

2013-2014 APA Winter Tire Recommendations


PMC Tire Canada

PMC Tire Canada: Winter Tire Ratings

Winter Tire Comparison Chart (PDF)

Performance Winter Tire Comparison Chart (PDF)

[Ubersuber]

Most important is to figure out what you need and want from your snow tires. There is a wide range of capabilities but no one tire does everything well.

Nokian consistently come out on top when measured over a range of capabilities but even they differentiate their range. Get the wrong Nokian for your needs and you will still be disappointed even if you thought you were buying the best.

Michelin is currently playing at the top of their game and their complete range of performance tires is testing and reviewing very well.

In my recent experience Continental is producing an excellent all round performer in the ExtremeContact series. Not truly outstanding in any one capability but close to the best in just about all of them. Pirelli still make the best bare road handling winter tire out there that still works reasonably well on ice or in snow.

And don't forget "slushplaning" ability. Forget hydroplaning resistance as that isn't as critical in winter as the ability to defeat slushplaning forces. My old Toyo Observ tires were outstanding in this respect but I couldn't stand the tread noise and very hard ride. Nokian is the current leader in slush planing resistance last time I checked.

Wonder what my little buddie will say about this post. It's getting kind of like having a stray dog follow me about, yipping and yapping and occasionally biting my trouser leg....

[Black Tire]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Most important is to figure out what you need and want from your snow tires. There is a wide range of capabilities but no one tire does everything well.

Exactly my problem. My Nokian WR G2's did great (I mean GREAT) in slush and very good in deep snow, but were a little scary on ice. Also the ride was very harsh as stated in my first post. It really seemed that Nokian WR G2's in 215/45R17 were designed for a heavier car, so this just did not seem to be a great match to me. I'm sure there is a winter tire that better matches the light weight of our cars. I really think weight has a lot to do with how well a particular tire works on ice. I am switching to 205/55R16 this year to help with some of these issues. I have had a lot of winter tires over the years including ones from Pirelli, Hankook, Yokohama, Bridgestone and Nokian.

I am currently trying to decide between a softer, more capable winter tire, or a performance winter tire with compromised snow and ice traction. I wish I could find my crystal ball to tell me what old man winter has in store for me this year. I also find myself on our local short track two or three times each winter as I instruct for one or more local clubs each winter. Last year was all snow and ice, so no accelerated wear, but if it happens to be dry at the right time next year, I could really use the performance tires. I guess I wish I could afford a fourth set of tires, so I could have two winter tires to use as conditions and use varied.

I started this thread to help get information to people looking at winter tires this year, and have one place for people to post their experiences from last winter.

[Black Tire]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Winter tire choice is even trickier than for summer tires.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Snow tires should have less rubber on the road than any other type of tire. More tread voids means more snow can be gripped into the tread which is how snow tires work. Snow tire tread compound is designed to optimize self cleaning of the tread. Best grip is obtained by 90 degree blocks but these are noisy.

Some snow tires are designed to keep the snow in the tread, as snow on snow traction is considered to be better than rubber on snow traction. I think it depends on the type of snow. I think high void sharp edged rubber would be better for wet, heavy snow. The snow on snow tread type would probably be better for fresh colder snow and for packed snow such as on a plowed road. My guess is that the higher void tread design would be better for deeper snow.

[Nivaku]

Hey guys!

Excellent information winter tire wise. I'm still confused though, since I have a 2015 blue series BRZ I believe they are stock 17'' instead of 16'', does that mean I have to buy 17'' RIMS or can 16'' work fine?

Also in terms of tires, since I live in Chicago which tires would you guys recommend me since there's soo many listed here? I prefer grip over noise since to me that's the most important, is getting snow tires the only thing I can do to improve this car's performance on snow?

Thanks in advance guys!

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by Nivaku

Hey guys!

Excellent information winter tire wise. I'm still confused though, since I have a 2015 blue series BRZ I believe they are stock 17'' instead of 16'', does that mean I have to buy 17'' RIMS or can 16'' work fine?

Also in terms of tires, since I live in Chicago which tires would you guys recommend me since there's soo many listed here? I prefer grip over noise since to me that's the most important, is getting snow tires the only thing I can do to improve this car's performance on snow?

Thanks in advance guys!

Those blue edition wheels are pretty nice wheels. You can buy 17 in winter tires and fit them just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to fit 17 in tires to my stock rims (and have done so) and the stock rims are fairly light and pretty well made. I'd think twice about doing that with those special edition rims.

Although winter conditions don't affect alloy wheels (they are painted so unless the paint gets chipped they don't corrode) they do increase the risk of damage to the paint if you slide into a curb or drop into a big pothole obscured by the snow. Minor paint damage in summer isn't an issue but in winter the corrosion can look pretty ugly, especially on dark wheels as aluminum corrosion looks whitish against the paint (one reason alloy wheels used to be coloured only with silver paint).

If you have the dough then I'd recommend you get a second set of wheels for your winter tires. Some like steel wheels for winter but I don't. They are ugly and heavy and less rigid than alloy. There are also plenty of very cheap alloys available that will work better for winter than steel wheels. In fact, the cost of some cheaper but still well made alloys (Sport Edition from China, eg) can approach the cost of a set of steel wheels and plastic wheel covers. There are lots of advantages to doing so, including you can swap your wheels easily when you want to without waiting for a shop to do it for you.

In the US you will need a set of OEM spec TPMS sensors and I believe you must have the TPMS re-coded to the sensors each time you swap wheels, unlike self learning TPMS. I don't know that for sure though because Canada doesn't fit them. There are aftermarket coding devices that are not too expensive if you don't want to have a tire shop or dealer re-code for you.

As for winter wheel size there are some who prefer "minus one" sizing for winter. I don't. I think the 17 in wheel is fine for winter as it fits a 45 series tire. Also, this car will take an 18 in wheel for summer use so the 17 is already "minus one" in that sense. Still, this car comes stock in some markets with 16 in wheels and I think just about any fairly recent Subie wheel should fit and there will be lots of used wheels out there if you want 16 in'ers.

Some claim that cars handle winter conditions better with minus one sizing but I haven't found that to be the case. Stock width is 215 mm so downsizing to 205/55x16 only drops tread width by 10 mm which isn't really noticable. However, downsizing one inch on the wheel does make the sidewalls taller by one half inch and more sidewall flex is beneficial in winter at the limits of traction on snow or ice. That same additional flex reduces bare road performance though.

[dem00n]

I'm curious as to how those lowered, fared in the last winter.