Fake Brembo's AP Racing Calipers/Brakes

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

There's a difference between replicas (which can be good quality or bad) and counterfeit products (which are always bad, at least I've never seen a good one).


I wouldn't touch these brakes, but I'll run Rota's all day long as they've proven themselves to me over many years of abuse with zero failures (unlike SSR, Enkei and some others).

Just add more material. It solves everything.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dwx

Rota uses the same aluminum everyone else uses because it's the cheapest, most readily available, and meets their specs. It's not like Rota started making wheels in the last 10 years to copy other aftermarket wheels, they started making wheels in 1979.

Here is a recent article on their manufacturing process.

http://www.autoindustriya.com/featur...-are-made.html

I don't condone their blatant rip-off of other designs (and they even admit to it in that article) but their manufacturing process isn't much different than most other wheel manufacturers. They have to pass JWL impact tests like anyone else.

Now Chinese knockoff brakes/rotors are a much scarier proposition, they aren't meeting ANY real specification... I'd be more scared of the rotors than the calipers really. They are probably very prone to cracking after a few heat cycles.

JWL is a self test. When they pass TUV, I'll be impressed.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by janitor

I understand what you are saying, and i am aware that Rota does manufacture wheels for Japanese automobile manufacturers, if you are planning on using an OEM wheel manufactured by Rota on your car then the strength concerns likely do not apply as the wheel was designed from the beginning of development to be made with a specific aluminum alloy by a specific manufacturing process, however if Nissan switched the production of Nismo LMGT4s from Rays to Rota without changing the design of the wheel at all - at that point strength would be a concern, which is the case with their replicas of forged aftermarket wheels. And this does apply mainly to the replicas of forged wheels, the Work Emotion CR Kai replica for example - i would be far less concerned about.

Rota wheels as applicable to the performance automotive enthusiast (read: not OEM wheels) are not sold in Japan in any significant quantity, this i will stand by. There is a difference between stamping a wheel with VIA and JWL and actually passing the JWL test by the manufacturer or being independently tested by VIA. As these markings mean nothing legally outside of Japan, Rota is able to leave these markings on the wheels. Wheels that are not JWL or VIA tested can be sold in Japan, however the large retailers will not carry them, which for a wheel manufacturer is a large percentage of total sales.

I broke an OEM Honda wheel (made by Enkei) but didn't even bend a Rota under far more severe usage.


I've used Rota's (and Volks, Desmond, SSR, old Buddy Club [ie not the new crap], 5Zigen (forged versions), etc) for several years and would not hesitate to use them again. I've bent the shit out of a forged wheel with regular track use (nothing crazy happened, no big off track excursions, etc). I've seen big boy forged wheels (Volks and Desmonds) fail on track also but to be fair I can't say what their usage was. I've done thousands of track miles and probably 100,000 miles or more on the street on Rotas. Not a single bend or failure on 2 different sets. Maybe I'm just lucky.. or unlucky depending.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Just add more material. It solves everything.

The Rota's I've always used were slipstreams. Easy to get 15x8s, etc. They are thick spokes, but so is the wheel they copy. They were lighter than my K1s at the time if I remember correctly. In larger sizes they are *heavy* though.


We could turn this into a debate on wheel strength and weight vs laptimes (and of course lighter isn't always faster, stronger will always be faster on track within a reasonable weight) but that's probably going far beyond the point of this conversation


I like protecting IP but really have a hard time with wheels. They are round barrels with spokes. There aren't all that many different ways to do it. Does everyone have the same issue with the design of a steering wheel, or the design of a shovel, or the design of a whatever else you want to think of? I care about function, frankly don't even give a crap what the wheels design is so maybe that's why I don't get it on wheels.


On the flip side, if Rota sold wheels with SSR stickers (or Rays, etc) or created a name like SSP and only sold knock-off SSRs for the sole purpose of confusing or misleading the consumer then I would be right with you on this one.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by BadBRZ

So as long as it SEEMS high quality it's okay?

Yeah sure when there have been no reported failures

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The Rota's I've always used were slipstreams. Easy to get 15x8s, etc. They are thick spokes, but so is the wheel they copy. They were lighter than my K1s at the time if I remember correctly. In larger sizes they are *heavy* though.


We could turn this into a debate on wheel strength and weight vs laptimes (and of course lighter isn't always faster, stronger will always be faster on track within a reasonable weight) but that's probably going far beyond the point of this conversation


I like protecting IP but really have a hard time with wheels. They are round barrels with spokes. There aren't all that many different ways to do it. Does everyone have the same issue with the design of a steering wheel, or the design of a shovel, or the design of a whatever else you want to think of? I care about function, frankly don't even give a crap what the wheels design is so maybe that's why I don't get it on wheels.


On the flip side, if Rota sold wheels with SSR stickers (or Rays, etc) or created a name like SSP and only sold knock-off SSRs for the sole purpose of confusing or misleading the consumer then I would be right with you on this one.

This counterfeits are different than knock offs,

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The Rota's I've always used were slipstreams. Easy to get 15x8s, etc. They are thick spokes, but so is the wheel they copy. They were lighter than my K1s at the time if I remember correctly. In larger sizes they are *heavy* though.


We could turn this into a debate on wheel strength and weight vs laptimes (and of course lighter isn't always faster, stronger will always be faster on track within a reasonable weight) but that's probably going far beyond the point of this conversation


I like protecting IP but really have a hard time with wheels. They are round barrels with spokes. There aren't all that many different ways to do it. Does everyone have the same issue with the design of a steering wheel, or the design of a shovel, or the design of a whatever else you want to think of? I care about function, frankly don't even give a crap what the wheels design is so maybe that's why I don't get it on wheels.


On the flip side, if Rota sold wheels with SSR stickers (or Rays, etc) or created a name like SSP and only sold knock-off SSRs for the sole purpose of confusing or misleading the consumer then I would be right with you on this one.

Yessir. The enginerd me hates copied stuff.

[JRitt]

Not good, not good at all. As one of AP Racing's biggest distributors in the world, we hate to see this type of stuff. It has the potential to harm the brand, but more importantly, to actually harm people!

As others have said, just make sure you're getting the genuine article before you buy. You should stick with trusted, reputable resellers who support and use the products they're selling, rather than just going for what appears to be the lowest price. That becomes especially important if you ever run into any problems, or simply need advice or support.

Finally, all of the AP Racing calipers we sell have serial numbers on their underside. You can see the first few digits on the AP Racing caliper below. The arrow is pointing at it. If you're unsure if you're holding a genuine article, you can contact us (Essex Parts Services) to verify.

[raytrix]

Where are the Rota supports that's suppose to backup this claim that it's the same but more "affordable" option.

[DarkSunrise]

Very concerning. Imagine if someone buys a set of imitation Brembos not knowing they're fake (for example, if bought used) and uses them on the track, and they fail in a hard 100+ mph braking zone. The result will not be pretty.

I have no issues if some company wants to create cheap knock-off BBKs, but don't try to pass them off as the real thing.

On imitation wheels, there's probably less chance for massive failure than with brakes, but I thought this video (Wedsport testing of imitation wheels) was enlightening. Sometimes it helps to see the difference visually.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJeFB6SRslk"]Dangerous imitation wheel !! - YouTube[/ame]

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by raytrix

Where are the Rota supports that's suppose to backup this claim that it's the same but more "affordable" option.

uhh huh?

[Khorne]

Originally Posted by JRitt

I spent a week looking at my calipers when i got them, not because i was worried they are just sexy.

I'd be interested to get my hands on a set of these fakes to see how closely they are copying the real things.

[xwd]

They are usually pretty good at copying cosmetic details if they are serious.

Well except these guys who copied Volk wheels and displayed them at SEMA. I can't find the pictures now but it had "FORCED" stamped where Volk would put "FORGED" along with a couple other misspellings. Right next to the "FORCED" was a visible dimple from the poor casting process. Usually those guys get kicked out trade shows but I guess not at SEMA.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Very concerning. Imagine if someone buys a set of imitation Brembos not knowing they're fake (for example, if bought used) and uses them on the track, and they fail in a hard 100+ mph braking zone. The result will not be pretty.

I have no issues if some company wants to create cheap knock-off BBKs, but don't try to pass them off as the real thing.

On imitation wheels, there's probably less chance for massive failure than with brakes, but I thought this video (Wedsport testing of imitation wheels) was enlightening. Sometimes it helps to see the difference visually.

I find this video interesting because it shows the WedsSport SA67r which is made with WedsSports' AMF (Advanced Metal Forming) process. More commonly known as Flow-form casting. WedsSports AMF wheels are known to be a quality wheel that are widely used in motorsports, and not a knock-off brand. Flow-formed processes have reached a point where these products are inexpensive enough for most people to reach. However many elitists will insist that only Forged wheels are "real" wheels and everything else is dangerous and cheap. This attitude shows lack of flexibility to allow new technologies and/or improvements in mfg processes to democratize technology. We also see this with other less expensive but effective products. It's easiest to spot when someone says "any part under $xxxx.xx is dangerous and people that use these parts are blah blah blah". There is certainly a middle ground, where newer tech makes previously price-prohibitive performance available to the masses. Being open minded enough to allow for that is equally as important as being a curmudgeon. I am not speaking about you @DarkSunrise, but I do see it quite a bit, and it doesn't help new affordable tech being taken up so more and more people can come to enjoy this hobby.