Fake Brembo's AP Racing Calipers/Brakes

[Timmy_Jones]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

I'd stick to the fake Brembo brake covers.

Safer than running the fake Brembos, unless of course there are independent studies done showing how amazing they are...

[HyperTech]

the real brembo is tested for racing purpose. if someone is using fake brembo to race, the chance that they fail to brake is high.

if its just for the look and they brake like the oem equipement, i dont see a probleme.

alot of not genuine stuff is as good as the real stuff for the aestetique purpose.

if its security purpose, i would not use conterfeit or fake stuff.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

This is a completely serious question, as I haven't been on these forums very long, but are Rota wheels that bad? I am absolutely not trying to start a war here, maybe some links to different threads/sites where the wheels failed?

I actually like the design of some of their wheels and would like to steer clear if they're that bad.

To put it very simply, Rota uses other manufacturer's designs but not the manufacturing processes.

Example: The popular Rays Volk CE28 - a forged, lightweight racing wheel. Rays has a significant investment on the design, development and materials used on the machinery used to manufacture this wheel, which itself is a product of countless hours of design, development and testing. To put it simply, the unique materials used (which is similar to 6061 aluminum, however optimized for the specific use as an automotive wheel) is specifically formulated to take advantage of the unique manufacturing process (which involves 10,000 tons of force, while spinning the material) by design.

For the sake of consistency let's keep the ideas of "right and wrong, and intellectual property" out of this discussion and concentrate on performance.

Rota offers a popular wheel that looks very similar to, if not virtually identical to the Volk CE28, however this wheel is manufactured by a gravity casting method (essentially pouring melted aluminum into a mold and waiting for it to cool to room temperature) using an unknown and poorly regulated grade of aluminum. Expecting a wheel specifically designed to be made of a specific grade of aluminum using a specific manufacturing method to function when made of inferior materials using inferior manufacturing methods is simply illogical. I strongly believe this is not simply a matter of branding, you are not simply paying for a name.

[Trap63]

...never seen Megaplants on Sky? Brembo production of rotors, carbon rotors or caliper? So the same for Rays, Enkei, OZ....tons of trademark and registred system.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by janitor

To put it very simply, Rota uses other manufacturer's designs but not the manufacturing processes.

Example: The popular Rays Volk CE28 - a forged, lightweight racing wheel. Rays has a significant investment on the design, development and materials used on the machinery used to manufacture this wheel, which itself is a product of countless hours of design, development and testing. To put it simply, the unique materials used (which is similar to 6061 aluminum, however optimized for the specific use as an automotive wheel) is specifically formulated to take advantage of the unique manufacturing process (which involves 10,000 tons of force, while spinning the material) by design.

For the sake of consistency let's keep the ideas of "right and wrong, and intellectual property" out of this discussion and concentrate on performance.

Rota offers a popular wheel that looks very similar to, if not virtually identical to the Volk CE28, however this wheel is manufactured by a gravity casting method (essentially pouring melted aluminum into a mold and waiting for it to cool to room temperature) using an unknown and poorly regulated grade of aluminum. Expecting a wheel specifically designed to be made of a specific grade of aluminum using a specific manufacturing method to function when made of inferior materials using inferior manufacturing methods is simply illogical. I strongly believe this is not simply a matter of branding, you are not simply paying for a name.

Rota uses the same aluminum everyone else uses because it's the cheapest, most readily available, and meets their specs. It's not like Rota started making wheels in the last 10 years to copy other aftermarket wheels, they started making wheels in 1979.

Here is a recent article on their manufacturing process.

http://www.autoindustriya.com/featur...-are-made.html

I don't condone their blatant rip-off of other designs (and they even admit to it in that article) but their manufacturing process isn't much different than most other wheel manufacturers. They have to pass JWL impact tests like anyone else.

Now Chinese knockoff brakes/rotors are a much scarier proposition, they aren't meeting ANY real specification... I'd be more scared of the rotors than the calipers really. They are probably very prone to cracking after a few heat cycles.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by dwx

Rota uses the same aluminum everyone else uses because it's the cheapest, most readily available, and meets their specs. It's not like Rota started making wheels in the last 10 years to copy other aftermarket wheels, they started making wheels in 1979.

Here is a recent article on their manufacturing process.

http://www.autoindustriya.com/featur...-are-made.html

I don't condone their blatant rip-off of other designs (and they even admit to it in that article) but their manufacturing process isn't much different than most other wheel manufacturers. They have to pass JWL impact tests like anyone else.

Now Chinese knockoff brakes/rotors are a much scarier proposition, they aren't meeting ANY real specification... I'd be more scared of the rotors than the calipers really. They are probably very prone to cracking after a few heat cycles.

I apologize for not specifying that I didn't mean aluminum as in the element. I should have stated aluminum alloy, of which there are many grades, depending on what other metals are mixed with the aluminum for different intended uses. The aluminum alloy that Volk has developed is similar to 6061 (originally used exclusively for the aerospace industry) with a higher silica and magnesium content for the intended use of an automobile wheel. TWS and BBS use a similar aluminum alloy in their forged wheels as well. Rota uses an aluminum alloy with a much higher iron content, which is not better or worse in itself - it is simply an aluminum alloy with a different intended use, not one of which is as a material for a high performance automobile wheel.

The other main difference between the Volk wheel and the Rota wheel is the process of manufacture. The difference between being pressed into shape by 10,000 tons of force to attain the very dense and uniform grain structure, and being melted and poured into a mold is pretty apparent simply by using common sense.

Rota does not pass JWL impact tests. JWL is an expensive process required only by large Japanese retailers to carry a certain wheel (Autobacs, Yellow Hat, etc.), Rota has no market in Japan and this certification does not apply or legally mean anything outside of Japan and it would be foolish of them to do so from a business perspective.

Please let me know if you have any questions, but I also understand that you won't simply believe everything you read on the internet - so I encourage you to do your own research.

[xwd]

Rota wheels are sold in Japan, and they all have JWL/VIA markings. They started off manufacturing OEM wheels in Japan and still do. They are based in the Philippines, who do you think their major market was going to be?? JWL is a requirement of the Japanese government and has nothing to do with retailers.

However, JWL certification is carried about the manufacturers themselves so take it with a grain of salt, but if wheels being sold are found not to be compliant the manufacturers can be fined.

Of course Volk uses a different process, but they are in a tiny minority of wheel manufacturers in the world producing wheels that way.

I encourage you to do your own research...

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Model Citizen

I bought ksports once based on lots of good "forum reviews". I very quickly learned to never again base a suspension decision based on people who don't experience winter or shit roads.

hah, yea I had Megan on my last car. Never again will I buy shit parts like that (at least knowingly)

At that time I made a hasty decision, I didn't fully understand suspension and I guess got tricked by the "they all have x y z adjustments". The fact there wasn't any knowledgeable vendors like on this forum didn't help.

Time researching and money spent on quality will save you a lot. It's a huge cliche but it is so true with car parts "do it once do it right". If you can't afford quality, rock stock until you can. IMO anyway

[Racecomp Engineering]

This is concerning, but not very if you buy your parts from a good trustworthy shop that you know deals with "real" manufacturers.

A note on total crap brakes...they're total crap. Shouldn't be a surprise but it is to some. It's not always knock-offs but just some of the cheap brands that get a lot of plugs here on the boards and other places. Here's a good example:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...-shacking.html
Dude is Romanian so forgive the english in that thread.

Basically, you have the fairly obvious problem of no real R&D (rotors and piston sizes too big --> horrible bias and front tires that lock up way too easily). But beyond that is where it gets interesting.

The youtube links in there show ridiculous caliper flex and a ton of variance in rotor thickness. Also, the force needed to turn the wheels. Terrible.

Unsafe? Well maybe, maybe not. But if they got all of that wrong there's no reason I would trust the brakes to hold up safely when you need them to work correctly. Certainly not worth it to me.

- Andy

[Racecomp Engineering]

And that link above isn't a knock-off brand...that's a brand I see on otherwise well done "sponsored" show and track cars. Amazing when people dump $20k into their motor and then think good brakes just means means big rotors and calipers that are the right color to match their paint scheme...

Same with suspension.

- Andy

[janitor]

Originally Posted by dwx

Rota wheels are sold in Japan, and they all have JWL/VIA markings. They started off manufacturing OEM wheels in Japan and still do. They are based in the Philippines, who do you think their major market was going to be?? JWL is a requirement of the Japanese government and has nothing to do with retailers.

However, JWL certification is carried about the manufacturers themselves so take it with a grain of salt, but if wheels being sold are found not to be compliant the manufacturers can be fined.

Of course Volk uses a different process, but they are in a tiny minority of wheel manufacturers in the world producing wheels that way.

I encourage you to do your own research...

I understand what you are saying, and i am aware that Rota does manufacture wheels for Japanese automobile manufacturers, if you are planning on using an OEM wheel manufactured by Rota on your car then the strength concerns likely do not apply as the wheel was designed from the beginning of development to be made with a specific aluminum alloy by a specific manufacturing process, however if Nissan switched the production of Nismo LMGT4s from Rays to Rota without changing the design of the wheel at all - at that point strength would be a concern, which is the case with their replicas of forged aftermarket wheels. And this does apply mainly to the replicas of forged wheels, the Work Emotion CR Kai replica for example - i would be far less concerned about.

Rota wheels as applicable to the performance automotive enthusiast (read: not OEM wheels) are not sold in Japan in any significant quantity, this i will stand by. There is a difference between stamping a wheel with VIA and JWL and actually passing the JWL test by the manufacturer or being independently tested by VIA. As these markings mean nothing legally outside of Japan, Rota is able to leave these markings on the wheels. Wheels that are not JWL or VIA tested can be sold in Japan, however the large retailers will not carry them, which for a wheel manufacturer is a large percentage of total sales.

[charged86]

these soon will be at every cheap parts online warehouse, amazon.com ebay.com forums worldwide in a used condition after the buy realizes his mistake.

[BadBRZ]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Haven't seen any system failures by "steals by design". Value for dollar seems unmatched to me. If I'm choosing between two different kits that both seem high quality and both worlds apart in pricing then I think the most logical choice would be the cheaper kit. Then again what the hell do I know....My whole exhaust system is a counterfeit POS. Just happens to run great and sound amazing...not to mention the whole setup was under $500 as compared to the $1500 I would have spent on my authentic pipes of steel.

So as long as it SEEMS high quality it's okay?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG David

You do realize there will be people here claiming how these fake POS will perform just as well as the real stuff at the fraction of the cost. The same supporters will support the same stance for wheels, tires, suspension, turbo/supercharger kits, etc. This is what happens when society values surface level appearance over safety and functionality; money over quality, experience, respect, and wisdom.

There's a difference between replicas (which can be good quality or bad) and counterfeit products (which are always bad, at least I've never seen a good one).


I wouldn't touch these brakes, but I'll run Rota's all day long as they've proven themselves to me over many years of abuse with zero failures (unlike SSR, Enkei and some others).