Dealer Service Center Oil Change Nightmare

[Kotu100]

OP: How'd the meeting with the GM go?

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by teamturbo

Insane!

If OP accepts new engine, carfax and other reporting agencies will lower the score of the car, thus lowering the resale value. Therefore, if he accepts a new engine, he should be compensated for loss of value as well. Lawyer up, please keep us posted.

Right, because nothing turns a buyer off like the idea of getting a used car that has a newer engine with less miles on it.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by FRS Dad

C) Change the oil again using the correct product and go on with your life.

That's what I would do

As long as an extended warranty is for any dealer and not just this one, I'd grab that and go one w/ life.

Free oil changes for life? I'd ask for that too, but that's just me.

[fradet]

Here what I would do.

I would look around to know what is the price for a new engine (parts + job done) then I would try to find out the depreciation of the car if it does get a swap later.

new engine + depreciation = Total of cash I would reclaim from the dealership.


Hopefully no funny mistakes, enlgish isnt my first language.

"merde" for this.

[Chimera]

Lawyer will be worth it even if you settle. If anything happens in the future you want legal paperwork on your side.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

That's what I would do

As long as an extended warranty is for any dealer and not just this one, I'd grab that and go one w/ life.

Free oil changes for life? I'd ask for that too, but that's just me.

That's not unreasonable. Even asking for free scheduled maintenance for the next 36 months isn't unreasonable.

[teamturbo]

Originally Posted by FRS Dad

Right, because nothing turns a buyer off like the idea of getting a used car that has a newer engine with less miles on it.

It tends to question the integrity of the car's mechanics and reliability. I don't know about you, but I like buying a car that matches the odometer.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by Chimera

Lawyer will be worth it even if you settle. If anything happens in the future you want legal paperwork on your side.

Knowing there's a very real probability that he'll recover nothing, how much money should the OP fork over to a lawyer. Give me a dollar figure. As a general reference, a typical retainer for ten hours of work...that includes time spent writing letters, doing research on similar cases, and any time he spends speaking with you on the phone or in person...is $2,500.

That money is gone in about two or three weeks, and way before any substantive negotiations take place. In the event no settlement is reached and it's necessary to litigate the case to verdict, even a simple case with one or two expert witnesses costs $25,000 to present.

Meanwhile, he can't drive the car anymore. The car itself and the engine specifically is evidence, so it needs to sit idle until the case is resolved, but he'll need to continue making payments of course.

It's very easy to tell someone to lawyer up, and in certain cases it might make sense. For example, if the shop left the oil drain plug out and the engine seized, but the shop denied liability, you'd have no choice but to get representation. In this case, at least so far, he's got very little to go on.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by teamturbo

It tends to question the integrity of the car's mechanics and reliability. I don't know about you, but I like buying a car that matches the odometer.

The car does match the odometer. Stuff fails on cars all the time. Would it bother you if you saw a Carfax line item in the history that stated "Replaced rear differential at 55,000 miles"? Not me. I'd just figure it's that much fresher and less likely to cause me problems. Same with a tranny or even an engine assembly as long as the docs were available. A new engine comes with a new warranty BTW.

[HeadBanger]

Originally Posted by FRS Dad

Let me use your analogy. The manufacturer specifies viscocity and grade, but you change your own oil and use the wrong kind. Later that same day you realize the error. Do you:

A) Go to the dealership parts department and order a new engine.
B) Trade the car in for a brand new car, taking a hit for depreciation.
C) Change the oil again using the correct product and go on with your life.

The thing is they didn't simply use an oil with the wrong grade.
OP didn't say if it's ATF or not, but ATF isn't an oil, and who's to say what they put in hasn't caused long term damage that isn't apparent yet?


It's all hypothetical, but what if the motor blows in a few months for some unknown reason. It may or may not be the dealers fault. But it might be. And if it is, OP potentially loses time and money due to their mistake.


Sure, he gets a new engine. But he still loses. I would be skeptical as hell buying a new-ish car with a replaced engine or tranny. The first thing that comes to mind is it was beaten, poorly maintained, or both. A dealership selling the car would try to pass it off as a good thing, but that's besides the point.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by fradet

new engine + depreciation = Total of cash I would reclaim from the dealership.

Hopefully no funny mistakes, enlgish isnt my first language.

"merde" for this.

Sure, why not? Maybe the President of Toyota Heavy Industries could personally fly in and blow the guy. Seriously though, why does the car need a new engine?

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by HeadBanger

It's all hypothetical, but what if the motor blows in a few months for some unknown reason. It may or may not be the dealers fault. But it might be. And if it is, OP potentially loses time and money due to their mistake.
.

Exactly. It's impossible to compensate someone for possible or hypothetical property damage that may or may not happen at some point in the future, or to compensate someone for potential lost time or money. People who want to recover damages have to suffer the actual damages. Then they can (and should) turn to the legal system for relief.

In this case, while apparently there is no evidence any damage occurred, the dealership addressed the OP's concern about hidden damage or premature parts failure or wear by extending the drive train warranty for 100,000 miles. Sounds like a perfectly fair resolution.

Listen, I'm not unsympathetic to the OP's predicament. People who have a new car that they love form an attachment to it and that bond in part is based on the idea that the car is virginal and pristine. Then something unexpected happens to it and they no longer see the car in the same light. That's human nature, but feelings and anxieties are not actual compensable damages.

[Chimera]

Depends on the owners comfort with a brand new potentially compromised vehicle. Tbh, if the 100k warranty offer is still good, that's a great deal. As long as this owner never wanted to mod this car.. That people love to modify. Suppose this owner wants to do that, then they have a potentially damaged vehicle that they accept responsibility for.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by FRS Dad

Knowing there's a very real probability that he'll recover nothing, how much money should the OP fork over to a lawyer. Give me a dollar figure.

$0.00. A conversation might not cost anything at all.

I had a problem with an insurance adjuster a while back and consulted an attorney. The attorney didn't charge me anything for the initial conversation and gave me very good advice in how to deal with the adjuster. That advice proved out when I ultimately got exactly what I wanted in the settlement without him having to do anything else. There was about a $2500 difference in the settlement that I could attribute directly to the attorney's advice. That was a pretty good return on an investment of $0 and 30 minutes on the phone.

If he had needed to get further involved, the next step would have been for the attorney to call the adjuster himself or possibly to write a letter on my behalf. He said he would charge me a couple hundred bucks for a letter, but he would probably get it back from the adjuster as part of the settlement. Only if we went beyond that into litigation would he start billing his hourly rate.

Back to my loaded gun, that insurance adjuster certainly had big guns on her side, because she worked for one of the largest insurers in the country. Yet the mere mention of having consulted an attorney changed the tone of the conversation and put a halt to the bullshit game she had been trying to play. And I didn't end up paying the lawyer anything.

The difference here is that I had an actual claim for damage that could be seen with the naked eye. Even so, my point remains the same: A simple conversation with an attorney may cost nothing at all. And even if you're charged a small consultation fee, that might be money well spent just to know the best way to deal with the dealership.