Suspension UPGRADE - Shock/Spring Pkg vs. Coilover System - Which to choose?

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

While cut bumpstops are not ideal, someone purchasing springs is looking for the most cost effective solution, not the ideal solution.

I absolutely agree that replacing the bumpstops is better than cutting the stock ones.

Stupid question, where can I buy bumpstops? rallysport, speedfactory, you guys, don't carry them it seems. Unless my keyword usage straight sucks today.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

Stupid question, where can I buy bumpstops? rallysport, speedfactory, you guys, don't carry them it seems. Unless my keyword usage straight sucks today.

I don't know of any shop that sells them.

There are a few places you can spec out custom ones, but the bumpstops included with our RCE springs (and Eibach + TRD) are the only ones made specifically with the BRZ/FRS in mind. We are not able to sell them separately unfortunately.

- Andy

[shattered_memory]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm gonna tell you what you don't want to hear. You're gonna get what you pay for.

If it were me, I'd keep the stock suspension, and get rear LCAs, front camber plates, a good alignment, and run it that way.

Cheap coilovers will NOT improve performance (no matter what people tell you); they're strictly useful for dropping the car. Springs on stock dampers, while not a bad medium, will not increase performance as much as getting a proper alignment.

Bonus: Camber plates and rear LCAs will not be outgrown, even if you go to top shelf dampers, you will be re-using these parts.

If you insist on spending more money, then I'd get RaceSeng CasCam plates, SPL Rear LCAs, and Swift Spec-R springs on stock dampers. We can package all this together for you, and is actually the exact setup that is on our car at the moment.

This makes sense as the stock suspension handles very well. Would you consider the Bilstein b14's w/custom swift springs to improve performance?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by shattered_memory

This makes sense as the stock suspension handles very well. Would you consider the Bilstein b14's w/custom swift springs to improve performance?

I've not had an opportunity to sample that combination, so... I have no idea.

[BrandonB]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've not had an opportunity to sample that combination, so... I have no idea.

How much would it cost for this combination? Is it worth it?

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

How much would it cost for this combination? Is it worth it?

I don't see why you would need to swap the springs as the B14 allows for:

Spring Rates (adjustable)
Front: 2.5-4.5kg progressive
Rear: 3.0-7.0kg progressive

Swift Spec R (fixed)
Spring Rate (Front): 4.4-kg/mm (245-lb/in)
Drop (Front): -28 mm (-1.1 in)
Spring Rate (Rear): 5.3-kg/mm (296-lb/in)
Drop (Rear): -25 mm (-1.0 in)

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...vers-1216.html

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...scion-frs.html

[Firestorm_86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm gonna tell you what you don't want to hear. You're gonna get what you pay for.

If it were me, I'd keep the stock suspension, and get rear LCAs, front camber plates, a good alignment, and run it that way.

Cheap coilovers will NOT improve performance (no matter what people tell you); they're strictly useful for dropping the car. Springs on stock dampers, while not a bad medium, will not increase performance as much as getting a proper alignment.

Bonus: Camber plates and rear LCAs will not be outgrown, even if you go to top shelf dampers, you will be re-using these parts.

If you insist on spending more money, then I'd get RaceSeng CasCam plates, SPL Rear LCAs, and Swift Spec-R springs on stock dampers. We can package all this together for you, and is actually the exact setup that is on our car at the moment.

If the ability (and perhaps adjustability) of going from DD to Performance oriented is the goal, and not track performance, are the ST's or B14's worthwhile for the damper upgrades?
Or would the ride customization only really come in with the 2 or 3 way adjustable coilovers? IE: KW V3's? Is there a more affordable setup that could smooth out sucky roads from the DD, that can be tweak for the track/autoX when (rarely) needed?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Firestorm_86

If the ability (and perhaps adjustability) of going from DD to Performance oriented is the goal, and not track performance, are the ST's or B14's worthwhile for the damper upgrades?
Or would the ride customization only really come in with the 2 or 3 way adjustable coilovers? IE: KW V3's? Is there a more affordable setup that could smooth out sucky roads from the DD, that can be tweak for the track/autoX when (rarely) needed?

IMO, cheap coilovers are strictly for dropping the car. Some options can drop the car, and ride nicely on the street, but none of the the options in that price perform well on track, OR on the street.

A performance increase is a performance increase. If improves performance on the street, it'll naturally improve track performance. Likewise, track performance means street performance. The two goals for increasing performance are, literally, the same goal.

Tracks are not a perfectly smooth surface. They're full of bumps, dips, undulations, and things that upset cars.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

I don't see why you would need to swap the springs as the B14 allows for:

Spring Rates (adjustable)
Front: 2.5-4.5kg progressive
Rear: 3.0-7.0kg progressive

Swift Spec R (fixed)
Spring Rate (Front): 4.4-kg/mm (245-lb/in)
Drop (Front): -28 mm (-1.1 in)
Spring Rate (Rear): 5.3-kg/mm (296-lb/in)
Drop (Rear): -25 mm (-1.0 in)

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...vers-1216.html

http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...scion-frs.html

Can't put Swift Spec R lowering springs on a coilover. He meant replace the standard Bilstein progressive springs with standardized linear coilover springs (which Swift, Hyperco, Eibach, etc. make in a variety of lengths/rates/diameters).

It's something I'd be interested in doing, but it adds quite a bit of cost to the kit.

- Andy

[Firestorm_86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

IMO, cheap coilovers are strictly for dropping the car. Some options can drop the car, and ride nicely on the street, but none of the the options in that price perform well on track, OR on the street.

A performance increase is a performance increase. If improves performance on the street, it'll naturally improve track performance. Likewise, track performance means street performance. The two goals for increasing performance are, literally, the same goal.

Tracks are not a perfectly smooth surface. They're full of bumps, dips, undulations, and things that upset cars.

So your recommendation would be to go big or go "RaceSeng CasCam plates, SPL Rear LCAs, and Swift Spec-R springs on stock dampers"?

TEIN's weren't in his initial list. I know you guys love your SRC's. What about the rest of the TEIN lineup, specifically the Mono Sport and Street Flex? It seems the KW's and RCE's get a lot more attention for the $2000 price range.

Is there really nothing between just springs and $2000 coilvers that would ride nicely on the street but be an improvement, however minor, on the track?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Firestorm_86

So your recommendation would be to go big or go "RaceSeng CasCam plates, SPL Rear LCAs, and Swift Spec-R springs on stock dampers"?

TEIN's weren't in his initial list. I know you guys love your SRC's. What about the rest of the TEIN lineup, specifically the Mono Sport and Street Flex? It seems the KW's and RCE's get a lot more attention for the $2000 price range.

Is there really nothing between just springs and $2000 coilvers that would ride nicely on the street but be an improvement, however minor, on the track?

Depends on goals, application, budget, etc.

[Firestorm_86]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Depends on goals, application, budget, etc.

Hey David! So we talked briefly before, and I'm still doing research...

What's you and Mike's take on: ST or B14's (or TEIN's)?

[Food]

B14... Best bang/quality for the buck.

....then later swap the prog springs for hyperco, if desired
.....then later custom valve

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by Food

B14... Best bang/quality for the buck.

....then later swap the prog springs for hyperco, if desired
.....then later custom valve

After what you mentioned in the other thread and this thread regarding post modification to the Bilstein coils I am reconsidering my options. I was not aware that was possible. Darn you! lol