Engine Swap: Which Would You Choose!??

[ZDan]

Added cost, added weight, added size. Wonder if it'd still fit in an FD or an S2000 or a C6 for that matter?

The great thing about wedge-chamber 2vpc OHV V8s is their relative small size, light weight, simplicity. Complexifying it doesn't really appeal to me...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by 3MI Racing

I'm hoping he meant the Coyote

Clearly I meant this guy:






Or I just had a really terrible song in my head.

- drew

[arghx7]

There a plenty of 4 valve per cylinder diesel pushrod engines. Obviously diesel truck engine applications are different from performance car applications.

[Night Hawk]

Supercharged Corvette engines? In this car? Don't make me laugh. Here is only one engine I would consider to swap into the FT86;



http://fordracingparts123.com/index....products_id=85

• 444 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque without the aid of forced induction
• Purpose-built Boss engine is based on production 2011 Mustang GT 5.0-liter DOHC V8, heavily modified with unique, Boss-specific parts to withstand all-day thrashing
• Revised intake, CNC-machined heads, lightened valvetrain and strengthened reciprocating assembly result in a race-proven engine meeting production durability standards

“In keeping with the spirit of the original, the new Boss 302 engine achieves its maximum power output at speeds at or above 7,500 rpm. Unlike the original engine, however, low-speed torque and driveability are uncompromised thanks to twin independent variable camshaft timing (Ti-VCT) technology and computer-aided engineering design tools.”






Forget about the 5.0 liter V8 from the IS F (2URGSE)! The 5.0 from the Mustang Boss 302 is more powerful, lighter, less expensive, WAY more durable and reliable, and with even better street manners. In fact he same can even be said for the "base" Coyote 5.0 from the Mustang GT. And the best part all that power without the need for forced induction. Also if you consider that the Boss 302 is EPA rated at 26mpg highway avg while weighing in at ~3,650 lbs (and with a 3.73 rear ratio!) imagine the MPG in a car that was at least 600 lbs lighter and with better aero. Total package hot rod.

[Sasquachulator]

I'd do a 2UR-GSE swap mainly for:

1.) keeping it in the family (im not opposed to crazy cross-manufacturer swaps, i just wouldnt be the one to do it if it came down to it)
2.) Less common swaps tend to be more awesome (LS, 2JZ, Honda motors...pfft...theres other motors out there too. Yeah those ones are probably the most simple though)

How about a Viper V10 (8.7L? Or that new one wich is a bit smaller displacement..i think 8.2L or something)
I think if this car needs a different motor, it needs one with some awesome NOISE to go along with it.

[Night Hawk]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I'd do a 2UR-GSE swap mainly for:

1.) keeping it in the family (im not opposed to crazy cross-manufacturer swaps, i just wouldnt be the one to do it if it came down to it)
2.) Less common swaps tend to be more awesome (LS, 2JZ, Honda motors...pfft...theres other motors out there too. Yeah those ones are probably the most simple though)

How about a Viper V10 (8.7L? Or that new one wich is a bit smaller displacement..i think 8.2L or something)
I think if this car needs a different motor, it needs one with some awesome NOISE to go along with it.

Not saying it is a V-10 Viper engine ($25k+ btw) sound wise, but if you don't think the Boss makes awesome noise you obviously haven't heard one rumbling along or screaming at WOT.. even with stock exhaust the thing sounds bad ass. There is one thing that Ford, Chevy, and Hemi guys do agree on and that is that the new 5.0 Mustangs are some of the best sounding engines you can have. And they consider themselves an authority on such matters

Any way the thing that attracts me to the Boss 302 crate engine in this type of application is that it is light weight, will definitely fit in the 86 (its physically more compact than the 2UR-GSE) and that it is a high revving free breathing torquey V8 with [relatively] small displacement which also delivers power, speed, and flexibility. You get the characteristics of a racing engine along with Maserati rivaling smoothness and drivability around town. You also get an extremely durable engine that was designed from the ground up to take a thrashing, continuously, over and over, and still maintain reliability. This thing was made to race. A lot.

444 hp and 380 lb.-ft naturally aspirated is still a LOT for a car that would weigh in at less than 2400 lbs finished product. Make the car lower and wider while you are at it with some serious rubber, throw in a torsen differential, and you would have a hell of a track toy.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

2.) Less common swaps tend to be more awesome (LS, 2JZ, Honda motors...pfft...theres other motors out there too. Yeah those ones are probably the most simple though)

I'm not sure what you mean buy less common swaps. LS (Corvette) motors are frequently swapped into small Japanese cars like RX-7's, S2000's, 350Z's, and even Miata MX-5's. Swapping other Japanese engines in is even more common. None of these cars have had a 5.0 Coyote/Boss swapped into them (won't fit) making it the much less common swap in my mind. The LS engines are great engines, no doubt about that, but they are nothing to get excited about without either A: forced induction or B: huge displacement. The Ford 5.0 delivers a huge punch and great value in a small displacement with extremely modern tech and no blower required.

[MtnDrvr86]

I would love to see either H1 or H2 engines from Hartley Ent. based on Hyabusa engines in i4 or v8 http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm I mean who wouldnt want 10000 rpms

[Night Hawk]

The again if 444 bhp isnt enough... you could always look toward the 650hp and
600 lb.-ft 5.8 liter V8 from the 2013 Shelby GT500. More powerful than an LS9 and with a smoother powerband to boot. Also the most powerful production V8 currently produced on the planet. Just saying lol.

Still I would rather put the 5.0 in the FT86 for so many reasons.

[Night Hawk]

Originally Posted by MtnDrvr86

I would love to see either H1 or H2 engines from Hartley Ent. based on Hyabusa engines in i4 or v8 http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm I mean who wouldnt want 10000 rpms

awesome little engine but it would have several disadvantages..

For one it would have horrible street manners if you tried to put it in a street car (which would not be legal anyway lol)

very expensive

Low end is basically non existent

rebuild interval- the engine must be rebuilt every 150 hours

It would be a fantastic engine for a race car.. not so much for taking a trip to the mall though lol.



Side note about the Boss 302 engine in regard to RPMs.. It has a 8,000+ redline

[SUB-FT86]

Damn a lot of you guys want monster powered FRS/BRZ? And all I wanted was about 25hp/35tq extra over the stock engine. Lol!!

[Night Hawk]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Look at the size of those heads and the height of that intake. I actually like the Coyote motor, but I really don't think it would fit. Nor would an LS9 or a Trinity motor. Nothing with a PD blower.

Even with the tall intake it is still more compact than a 2UR-GSE and that seems to fit fine. Obviously with modifications to the engine bay but fits nonetheless. There is a ton of space in this little cars engine bay once you gut it.

Even with the LS3 being the power house that is, my choice of n/a V8 engines for this car would rank in this order;
1. Boss 302 444 hp 380 lb.-ft
2. "Base" Coyote 5.0 420 hp 390 lb.-ft
3. 2UR-GSE 5.0 liter V8 (from the IS F) 416 hp 371 lb.ft
4. The 4.0 liter V8 from the BMW M3 414 hp 295 lb.-ft
5. LS3 6.2 liter 425 hp 425 lb.-ft
6. the rest lol

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

You'd be spending a lot more money on a Boss 302 crate motor than an LS3.

Crate Boss motor is $11,000 and weighs 444lbs.
http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com...-6007-m50b.htm
Crate LS3 is $6,300 and weighs 415lbs.
http://www.race-mart.com/GM_Performa...-19201992.html
The LS3 is smaller, lighter, simpler, and just as reliable. You lose 14hp. BFD. Make that back with a set of headers anyways.

If you look at peak HP only yes the LS3 looks competitive. It is no where near as reliable as the Boss motor though and no where near as advanced. It is a great engine, just not what I would put in my car.

I like the boss because it has the best characteristics of both a big V8 when you are on it and a Camry V6 when you are just sitting at idle or putting around town. Not to mention the difference in overall efficiency between it and a simple pushrod V8. Also if you do a little looking you can find a Boss 302 crate engine for closer to $8500 that was just the first link I happened to click that had a good pic lol

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Meh, you could turn up the wick on the LS9 and have the same thing. 650 crank is 3 hour session with EFILive away on an LS9. Most people skip that and go straight for 650 WHEEL with a snout, pullies, and headers. But that's the thing about factory blower motors. You really can't say one is better than another until you've maxed out the stock bottom end. And what's this about a "smoother powerband"? Show me a chassis dyno graph that backs that claim up.


Is the GT500's torque curve noticeably flatter than that?

Besides, that's all academic because I doubt those motors will fit height wise, unless you cut the hood. I don't think any hood would fit.

I wasn't serious about the Shelby engine at all I was just throwing that in there bc some one mentioned the Viper V10 lol

And honestly I really don't know if the new 5.8 liter in the 2013 shelby will truly be better than the LS9. More powerful stock; yes. Will it be as durable and so forth.. hard to say. The LS9 is one hell of a motor (to say the least!), and it is already proven in the real world. Time will tell I guess. I did read that the new Shelby 5.8 had a flatter torque curve than the LS9 but my guess is that if that is true the difference will be virtually imperceptible.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

And I don't know where you got this 8000+ rpm redline malarky, but the Boss 302 redlines at 7500. I've hit it.

Oops you are right. For some reason I thought it was a lot more than my car (2011 Mustang GT with the Coyote). My bad on that one.

[uspspro]

I still think the 2GRFSE is the perfect match.

But I want to give the FA20 a shot with a Rotrex.

[Exhaust]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Damn a lot of you guys want monster powered FRS/BRZ? And all I wanted was about 25hp/35tq extra over the stock engine. Lol!!

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Night Hawk

I'm not sure what you mean buy less common swaps. LS (Corvette) motors are frequently swapped into small Japanese cars like RX-7's, S2000's, 350Z's, and even Miata MX-5's. Swapping other Japanese engines in is even more common. None of these cars have had a 5.0 Coyote/Boss swapped into them (won't fit) making it the much less common swap in my mind. The LS engines are great engines, no doubt about that, but they are nothing to get excited about without either A: forced induction or B: huge displacement. The Ford 5.0 delivers a huge punch and great value in a small displacement with extremely modern tech and no blower required.

Just saying anyone who does or talks a bout a swap usually goes with a LS, Honda or 2JZ motor. you dont see anyone swap in say a 260hp turbo ecotec or a Mustang 5.0 or something of the like.
I was just saying if i were to do a swap i'd swap in a motor that was NOT a 2JZ, Honda or LS motor.