deciding on BBK

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

That would be a true statement IF they weighed more however, they do not! In fact the entire front and rear kit weighs in 3lbs less than the stock system. That's a whole lot more stopping power and less weight to boot.....

Not to mention both the OP and myself have over 400whp so being slowed by rotational mass isn't as much of a concern.

Weight is further from the hub and rotational, so that amplifies the weight. The weight saved is at the hub.


Selection would depend on track, but even with 400HP I wouldn't see a need beyond the sprint kit for cooling on any track I've driven (and that's not the smallest list on here I'd bet).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

interesting, this is the first time I am hearing this problem with Wilwood calipers and I've spoken with many track guys with different setups I don't see as many FRS/BRZ owners with BBKs though.. Can you provide a link/more info about this? Is this with their steel pistons or thermlock? I wonder if this is a car specific issue or a mismatched kit issue

after certain amount of time and heavy use every caliper will flex for sure..
many makers claim that the Monobloc design tend to flex even more than the 2 pc designs (unless it's an F1 superior race brakes )





How is that so? Larger rotors in general (with same width) should provide better thermal efficiency which ultimately affect the consistency ..then again I am not talking about the stopping distance ...but in fact even the "stopping distance" is effected after certain temps

link to source:
http://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm#Summary

You really shouldn't be overheating the brakes with this car, with a Sprint kit.

It really comes down to thermal mass and heat dissipation surface area.

I see Wilwood failures regularly; the big Willwood sponsored teams down here carry extra calipers because they fail that often at the track. We're not talking complete failures, but smaller ones like seized pistons, flex, etc.

[AZFA20]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Weight is further from the hub and rotational, so that amplifies the weight. The weight saved is at the hub.


Selection would depend on track, but even with 400HP I wouldn't see a need beyond the sprint kit for cooling on any track I've driven (and that's not the smallest list on here I'd bet).

I agree the Sprint kit and really any of the brands mentioned on here are all great choices. I was just tossing another option out there for the OP since this is one that is often forgotten about on this platform and it's no surprise since they are not typically known for anything Japanese. He didn't want to buy new wheels anyway so I assumed this would be a no go but for other readers out there it might be. I have used all the brake systems mentioned in this thread and really I like them all for different reasons. Even some Wilwoods but there are cases I didn't like Wilwoods. Case in point my very own truck (S10 with a 383 stroker with totally different braking demands but still) that uses them... I dislike them haha.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by glamcem

interesting, this is the first time I am hearing this problem with Wilwood calipers and I've spoken with many track guys with different setups I don't see as many FRS/BRZ owners with BBKs though.. Can you provide a link/more info about this? Is this with their steel pistons or thermlock? I wonder if this is a car specific issue or a mismatched kit issue


after certain amount of time and heavy use every caliper will flex for sure..
many makers claim that the Monobloc design tend to flex even more than the 2 pc designs (unless it's an F1 superior race brakes )

You'd have to talk to those who've experienced it. I've seen the end result but can't say I tried to gather any data. It wasn't a key item in my decision not to run wildwood calipers.

How is that so? Larger rotors in general (with same width) should provide better thermal efficiency which ultimately affect the consistency ..then again I am not talking about the stopping distance ...but in fact even the "stopping distance" is effected after certain temps

link to source:
http://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm#Summary

It's a question of efficiency. Those temps are all LOW, as in even the OEM brakes won't sweat at those temps.


Those stopping distances are all normal variance, especially given track temp changes (and tire condition changes), which changes tire friction, which stops the car. Hell if surface conditions were bad for the track package brakes but ideal for the stoptech then those results could even be reversed. Did they threshold brake? That's where you'll see the best benefit from multi piston calipers in terms of stopping distances and with pad friction changes (which can effect bite, modulation, etc). Scientific test, but not scientific enough to actually conclude evidence of anything beyond "they all work". Pads have an ideal temp range and too much cooling is bad, same as not enough. So, unless you can create enough heat where you *need* a 14" heatsink, then it's a waste and you could get by with less which will let the suspension do it's job better and the car will be faster than the same car with bigger heatsinks running at a lower temp. It's an extreme example due to weight, but high end motorsports (F1, etc) don't run huge brakes because it makes the car slower. All race cars tend to use either what's required (class rules) or the minimum they need in terms of thermal mass.


And that's not even bothering to think about consumables costing more in those big kits. At least for Brembo 14" rotors I've seen 500-700 dollar bills.. per rotor.. on a car that would go through a set in 6-8 track days...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

I agree the Sprint kit and really any of the brands mentioned on here are all great choices. I was just tossing another option out there for the OP since this is one that is often forgotten about on this platform and it's no surprise since they are not typically known for anything Japanese. He didn't want to buy new wheels anyway so I assumed this would be a no go but for other readers out there it might be. I have used all the brake systems mentioned in this thread and really I like them all for different reasons. Even some Wilwoods but there are cases I didn't like Wilwoods. Case in point my very own truck (S10 with a 383 stroker with totally different braking demands but still) that uses them... I dislike them haha.

For the Brembo, I honestly believe it's price that keeps most away from them. There are some people here that use them but AFAIK they are on showcars (not because they don't work, it comes down to show points...). I'd rather pay for Brembos than use some of the really cheap kits out there


Edit: oops you brought up the Baer not the Brembos.. nevermind I don't recall the price on the Baer stuff.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

I agree the Sprint kit and really any of the brands mentioned on here are all great choices. I was just tossing another option out there for the OP since this is one that is often forgotten about on this platform and it's no surprise since they are not typically known for anything Japanese. He didn't want to buy new wheels anyway so I assumed this would be a no go but for other readers out there it might be. I have used all the brake systems mentioned in this thread and really I like them all for different reasons. Even some Wilwoods but there are cases I didn't like Wilwoods. Case in point my very own truck (S10 with a 383 stroker with totally different braking demands but still) that uses them... I dislike them haha.

there are some wilwood kits that are really cheap and some of them with the added options such as "thermlock pistons" that costs about the same as the Stoptechs and AP kits so maybe there are some differences in quality as well

[Griever423]

AP racing sprint kit. Tested and track proven. You'll save a ton on consumables as well.

[Reaper]

@CSG Mike and @CSG David im ready to order.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Reaper

@CSG Mike and @CSG David im ready to order.

Check le PM.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

At least for Brembo 14" rotors I've seen 500-700 dollar bills.. per rotor..

Holy mang!!!!

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Reaper

@CSG Mike and @CSG David im ready to order.

Which kit did you decide on?

[Reaper]

sprint.

[protpibe]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Can't comment anything positive about Wilwoods per our experiences and what we've dealt with in the past, so we'll leave that alone.

STI brakes are a downgrade to stock. The brake bias is slightly different and even the brake pad sizing is a little different. OEM is pretty large in that regard. You'll still need to look into the proper pad setup to get the bite and modulation you're looking for. Use the brakes too much and they'll overheat...like any overabused brakes...

We've had good experiences with the AP Sprint Kit. We've gone through most pads available on the market with different non-staggered and staggered compounds and have a pretty good idea of what you will need based on your setup. This is something we're proud about knowing nobody else has probably done this level of testing. The AP Sprint Kit is capable of going through a lot of abuse despite the small-ish diameter. LMK if you have any other questions.

I'm actually really surprised by the bolded text in your statement. My knowledge of brakes must be way out. I read a thread that @Element Tuning participated in where he upgraded his time attack car to STI Brembos and had excellent results

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by protpibe

I'm actually really surprised by the bolded text in your statement. My knowledge of brakes must be way out. I read a thread that @Element Tuning participated in where he upgraded his time attack car to STI Brembos and had excellent results

WRX/STI distribution is quite different from the FRS.

To put it in perspective, the 2015 WRX has larger front rotors than the FRS (315x28 vs 299x24), but smaller pads in the rear (don't remember dimensions off the top of my head, but iirc rotor diameter was larger but utilizes a smaller pad/swept area).

This balance is carried over to the STI. While it works, it gives a heavy front bias. I'd speculate that Element Tuning was okay with that, since with a fairly gutted car, the FRS becomes nose-heavy. With their FI and Aero, the STI setup was probably an easy upgrade for them. However, for the average street driven car, it's not the proper upgrade.