Lowering Springs Making Handling Worse?

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

If you understand what I'm saying than you understand that higher spring rates outside of the critical damping means it will shorten the stock dampers life. 1.2 inch drop is hardly mild. RCE yellows .8 inch drop is mild.

It's not a sweeping statement when I see cars with high sprung suspension and bouncing around like a bobble head. It's because their dampers aren't meant to damp at that high of a spring rate.

Yup I do understand - can you quantify how much stock damper life will be shortened? Regarding bobble head, my car has sportlines and has no problems like that - which is why I called the statement "sweeping", saying you "see cars" with "high sprung suspension"... which cars, what suspension, how many miles on their dampers, etc.

Disagree if you like, but I own and drive the very car that everyone says will "blow" its struts, "bobble" down the road, and generally handle like crap because the springs are all wrong. I'm here to testify that is not the case. As soon as my car blows its struts, starts bobbling, and begins handling horribly, I will happily come back to this thread and recant everything I've stated

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Yup I do understand - can you quantify how much stock damper life will be shortened? There are a lot of variables that take into account the lifespan of dampers, the higher the spring rate on a stock damper the faster it's deterioration will accelerate.

until someone corrects me with empirical data showing otherwise that's what I've come to conclude.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

until someone corrects me with empirical data showing otherwise that's what I've come to conclude.

Ok we certainly agree on that point. It's not something I'm worried about - I bet my stock dampers will easily last me to 50k. Definitely not what I'd call "blowing" my dampers. In those 50k miles (vs maybe 100k), I will enjoy the great looks and fun handling - I'm into modifying my car, and likely I will sell it or further modify the suspension by then. I can ammortize the cost of coilovers (or even just bilsteins) over those 50k miles, comes out to maybe 2 cents per mile.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Oh man, thanks a ton! I really should save some of the things I write on here.

- Andy

And you're thinking "Wow, that guy really knows what he's talking about. Oh wait, that was me. "

[Racecomp Engineering]

I'd argue tha too low is more harmful to your dampers than too stiff. Neither one is good but in reality a lot of it comes down to the roads you drive on.

Originally Posted by gramicci101

And you're thinking "Wow, that guy really knows what he's talking about. Oh wait, that was me. "

Sometimes I surprise myself. Occasionally it's in a good way.

- Andy

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Don't get the sportline unless you're going to get upgraded shocks as well, the drop is too much for stock length shocks.

@Jeff01234567 That is not necessarily true. Eibach designed the springs with the OEM shocks and struts in mind, so upgrading them is not necessary. Sure, it is encouraged, but if you aren't planning on driving the car in an AutoX/Track environment then you are good to go.

Great kit that FT86SF provides, I am thinking of getting this myself. Read more:

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/ft-8...line-1077.html

[themajesticone]

What is your Wheel size? Looks pretty flush-ish considering it is only a .8 inch drop

[Ubersuber]

The stock dampers don't look like twin tubes, they look like monotube gas pressure. The fronts are surely gas pressure monotube struts.

Stock rear damping is inadequate in rebound in my opinion. Bounce damping is mainly about not interfering with the spring rate on initial compression, particularly at high stroke speeds. Rear bounce performance isn't an issue with stock dampers. Low speed large amplitude stroke on the stock dampers isn't an issue either. High stroke speed control is definitely an issue at the rear dampers.

Front damping seems fine for the BRZ but I prefer the steering feel with the inverted Bilstein struts.

Stiffer springs are not going to improve the problem at the rear since you need even more rebound resistance with higher rate springs.

While I can read a dyno graph (well any graph) I cannot relate the numbers or the graph line to the actual driving feel, much less the objective performance differences.

For street driving rebound control is critical because of the bumps, if not other reasons.

Bump performance for the street is about reducing resistance to bump for high stroke speeds and controlling the reflection harmonic once the rebound stroke has quelled as much of the spring motion as it can without jacking down.

Better shocks give you low resistance at high stroke speeds and firm resistance at low stroke speeds, in bump. Rebound should be firmer at high stroke speeds than bump, obviously.

In my experience for bumpy roads, whether tracks or street, the dampers are the critical components for suspension performance. Spring rates are not as important.

For cars with unmodified suspension geometry there is only so much you can do about camber change with suspension movement, generally, lowering springs start the camber change at a higher compression point to begin with, then the stiffer rate keeps the camber change at a slower rate. Whether this actually improves roadholding is an open question heavily dependent on the road you are trying to hold onto.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Don't worry, even if he has he'll misread them and tell you that you're wrong.

He's never even been on a racetrack, and hasn't tried different combinations on his own car, but he knows more than EVERYONE else on here.

Sarcasm?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Sarcasm?

Nothing gets past you, does it?

I find it amusing that you're the ONLY person around with most of your opinions, yet spout them off like they're gospel.

[Ubersuber]

All the really important advances in knowledge were first thought of by just one person, just by the way.

You are amused by what you see as "unique" opinions. I in turn am faintly amused that you bother to read them, much less respond.

Anybody who finds my posts unhelpful can simply ignore them. I suggest you consider doing so.

Feel free to keep refuting them though as the difference of views may help somebody decide what to do with their car.

I find the differing views helpful in deciding what to do with my car.

So far what I have done is working as intended. Maybe I don't know what I'm doing or why it works but, if so, then I've been remarkable lucky at getting exactly what I want doing what I think works.

Could be just coincidence or it could be I know what I'm doing.

Just BTW, I have driven on tracks in both street cars and an open wheel car. It appears I am quite quick, especially considering, apparently, I don't know how this stuff all works. Then again Montoya knew next to nothing about the cars he drove and I think he was quick.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Could be just coincidence or it could be I know what I'm doing.

you all know nothing. 17kg/mm bitchezzz

Where would you even find springs that stiff omg

[gramicci101]

I'm pretty sure one of the fabrication guys on here can just mill you a set out of billet aluminum.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

All the really important advances in knowledge were first thought of by just one person, just by the way.

You are amused by what you see as "unique" opinions. I in turn am faintly amused that you bother to read them, much less respond.

Anybody who finds my posts unhelpful can simply ignore them. I suggest you consider doing so.

Feel free to keep refuting them though as the difference of views may help somebody decide what to do with their car.

I find the differing views helpful in deciding what to do with my car.

So far what I have done is working as intended. Maybe I don't know what I'm doing or why it works but, if so, then I've been remarkable lucky at getting exactly what I want doing what I think works.

Could be just coincidence or it could be I know what I'm doing.

That's just it though, it's just opinion. You have no data to back up your claims. If you're going to claim things give quantitative improvements, you better have the hard data to back it up.

Just because it feels better, doesn't mean it's actually improving anything but feel. It could very well be making other things much worse.