How fast is the GT86 on track?

[LoCo]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Here's pro driver Charles Espenlaub driving @smbstyle 's BRZ at Sebring and cranking a 2:39 out of it. Completely stock motor, double-adjustable coilovers, and 215/45/17 Nitto NT-01 R-compound tires.

As far as true competition goes, and not just having fun at a DE, there are some good examples out there to show some perspective on how this relatively new platform is stacking up. Here's a n/a car setting a lap record at Tsukuba circuit. Still running a FA20 engine and using parts available off the TRD shelf:

Another n/a car at Road Atlanta setting the winning time and new class lap record of 1:43.92 in Enthusiast RWD at Global Time Attack. Basically just coilovers, tune, and sticky street tires.

Brilliant post! Love it!

The griffon concept is insane tho... 980kg = 2160 lbs. and unlimited budget for slicks ... But yes... They went faster as the HKS supercharged car...
[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VLNbGMuoap8[/ame]
Ad08r tho... Quite a difference to slicks but the car has sequential box etc... The works. Heavier tho...

I watched your videos too and I saw discussions about your hans and asm harness

You are quite the inspiration...

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

It's a little off topic but the valve issue was a LS7 issue specifically several motors popped due to exhaust valves dropping. The general thought is that faulty head production from 06 to 11 (valve guides) was the root cause.

yes, that's different though so I wanted to clarify if he was referring to the Valve spring issue on the C5 Z06 or valve dropping on the C6 Z06 (LS7) engines..as you mentioned since it's due to head many people changed theirs with aftermarket heads to prevent that.. with that said, there are not so many instances of that on the Corvetteforums AFAIK there were less than 20 reported issues, last time I checked

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

If the Vette is a sledgehammer then the BRZ must be an x-acto knife

By that do you mean a very slow and painful death?

Just kidding I really do love this car on the track.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So wait. We're NOT supposed to stab frantically at the throttle while jerking at the steering wheel?? I've been doing this all wrong!

For seriously though, aren't you supposed to roll into the throttle after the apex and use it to push the car out to the track-out point?

You'd be surprised how few people actually do that. This is why we stress dataloggers. One day with a datalogger can be more productive than 5 full track days.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

but even in the hands of a professional driver, Corvette cannot be driven the same way so you have to respect the power..too early on the throttle and/or WOT and it'll bite your ass..

for god's sake car makes about 350 lb-ft at IDLE..I repeat IDLE so I'd say it's more like the relative speed since it's a lot more compared to slower cars.. due to amount of power, not necessarily as a crutch..

The vette is still a momentum car, but most (nearly all) owners drive it like a muscle car.

500+hp doesn't bother me... I still advocate driving the car the fastest way it can be (reasonably) driven. Remember, I regularly drive big hp cars with much smaller tires than what you typically see on a vette; it really comes down to developing good throttle control.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

If the Vette is a sledgehammer then the Lotus must be an x-acto knife

FTFY

I actually use that exact analagy comparing the Huracan to the 458...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

It's a little off topic but the valve issue was a LS7 issue specifically several motors popped due to exhaust valves dropping. The general thought is that faulty head production from 06 to 11 (valve guides) was the root cause.

With a fast driver, the LS7 will always let go due to oil starvation when you run slicks.

The LS3/LS6 is preferred for longevity, particularly if you're being classed by power/weight.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You'd be surprised how few people actually do that. This is why we stress dataloggers. One day with a datalogger can be more productive than 5 full track days.

I've not done very much performance driving at all, but wouldn't you be able to feel that? It should be a difference between having to steer your way to the track-out point vs. rolling on more throttle and having the car run wider and wider until you reach track-out naturally. The correct amount of throttle will keep you on the correct line. Too much and you'll hit the edge of the track too soon and have to make a major steering correction. Too little and the car will not push all the way out and you have to steer it out to stay on the line. I can see how that would take some practice to get a feel for, but it doesn't seem like a difficult concept.

I definitely haven't tried this on public roads. I don't even know why you would think that.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I've not done very much performance driving at all, but wouldn't you be able to feel that? It should be a difference between having to steer your way to the track-out point vs. rolling on more throttle and having the car run wider and wider until you reach track-out naturally. The correct amount of throttle will keep you on the correct line. Too much and you'll hit the edge of the track too soon and have to make a major steering correction. Too little and the car will not push all the way out and you have to steer it out to stay on the line. I can see how that would take some practice to get a feel for, but it doesn't seem like a difficult concept.

I definitely haven't tried this on public roads. I don't even know why you would think that.

The concept is easy, but the skill is much harder to master, particularly when going over the limit while learning means you're probably going to spin out and go off track.

Now add on top of this, constantly changing conditions: tire pressure, tire temperature, ground temperature, sand/dust/dirt/gravel on the road, wind, etc.

Remember, this skill's value becomes exponentially higher in the rain/wet. This is where Senna absolutely dominated everyone else in F1, and when it rained, nobody had a chance against Senna.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's like a slightly faster Miata.

There's a reason the Miata is so popular as a "learning" car.

The BRZ is faster than a Miata?? Honest question.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

The BRZ is faster than a Miata?? Honest question.

Generally speaking yes.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The concept is easy, but the skill is much harder to master, particularly when going over the limit while learning means you're probably going to spin out and go off track.

Now add on top of this, constantly changing conditions: tire pressure, tire temperature, ground temperature, sand/dust/dirt/gravel on the road, wind, etc.

Remember, this skill's value becomes exponentially higher in the rain/wet. This is where Senna absolutely dominated everyone else in F1, and when it rained, nobody had a chance against Senna.

To add to Mike's point, also keep in mind how few of us are truly ready to write off our car's value with a single wreck. The prospect of going off-track and damaging/rolling the car is very serious, especially with novice/intermediate drivers.

I know I am definitely sandbagging my own driving at the track, because I want to drive the car home and enjoy it on the streets. The moment the car is paid off and I pick up another daily driver, I am putting a cage in the car and going all out.

-alex

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The vette is still a momentum car, but most (nearly all) owners drive it like a muscle car.

500+hp doesn't bother me... I still advocate driving the car the fastest way it can be (reasonably) driven. Remember, I regularly drive big hp cars with much smaller tires than what you typically see on a vette; it really comes down to developing good throttle control.

Mike, IMO every car is a momentum car.. I realized this after owning the BRZ ..I think, with the added power and weight some cars just need to be treated different than the other that's all ..

500+hp also doesn't bother me but 500hp out of a growling LS motor and and a boosted 4 cylinder motor are two very different things.. because of the humongous TQ difference, Corvettes are not forgiving like the supercharged S2000 (almost similar power) or modified Evos

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

With a fast driver, the LS7 will always let go due to oil starvation when you run slicks.

The LS3/LS6 is preferred for longevity, particularly if you're being classed by power/weight.

Dry sump system on the LS7 and LS3 motors are very good actually and I didn't hear any major issues other than the valve dropping on the LS7
(very few instances) .. My friend's Z06 with Z07 package came with Cup Tires from factory and many people run Hoosiers at the local tracks with no problem .. are you sure those are the LS7s? because LS6 and LS2-LS3 (base and Z51) didn't come with dry sumps and I heard some oil starvation on them but not the LS7s

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

The BRZ is faster than a Miata?? Honest question.

in NASA NW region, TT record holders are either driving a turbo Miata or S2000 with SC ..there are a few Evos too but I didn't see any BRZ or FRS..but Miata vs BRZ, I think it all depends on the mods, budget and the person who does the build and the driver

check out these videos, driver Bob Bundy is an active member on Miata forums ..the guy is wicked fast
[ame="http://youtu.be/fqmJAO0aqyc?"]http://youtu.be/fqmJAO0aqyc?[/ame]

[ame="http://youtu.be/y1X2745J9l8?"]http://youtu.be/y1X2745J9l8?[/ame]


I was in the same group with these guys and I was the second slowest guy I think haha ..he's about 13secs faster than me on the same day and conditions
[ame="http://youtu.be/-jKLXA12r64?"]http://youtu.be/-jKLXA12r64?[/ame]


and about 11 seconds faster in this track (not same day though)
[ame="http://youtu.be/KTJXtMcXxJo?"]http://youtu.be/KTJXtMcXxJo?[/ame]
and this is his blog

http://sectoronedesign.wordpress.com/


@CSG Mike , do you know this S2K owner from the other board?