Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

This is very important to me as I am driving at partial throttle more often than I ever drive WOT engaging the boost. Fenton has said you lose about 10hp up top around 6k which does not matter to me. However their was a dyno posted a few pages back by Jac showing a comparison dyno of stock vs this system with the DR system. This dyno clearly showed that stock had more tq and HP in that playful area with the DR exceeding stock around 4k and up.

As you said you would not be driving at WOT most of the time, you have to remember that the dyno's you are looking at are of WOT with DR. The ESC becomes a restriction at higher air flow, such as high rpm's and/or less throttle plate restriction. So the more open the throttle gets the the more of a restriction the ESC becomes. At 75%+(WOT) it is about 10hp, but with the system turned on, you would have boost, so you won't have any loss of power. Even with throttle switch disabled and only DR turned on, you only see any loss below 4000rpm. I haven't seen a partial throttle dyno with the ESC so I don't think anyone knows at what throttle position/rpm ratio the ESC becomes a restriction, but my guess is that under 1/2 throttle at over 7000 rpm you won't have any restriction what so ever. So the worst case scenario is that between 1k and 4k rpms, with a throttle position between 50% and 75% you might see a loss of of less than 10 hp.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Target70

As you said you would not be driving at WOT most of the time, you have to remember that the dyno's you are looking at are of WOT with DR. The ESC becomes a restriction at higher air flow, such as high rpm's and/or less throttle plate restriction. So the more open the throttle gets the the more of a restriction the ESC becomes. At 75%+(WOT) it is about 10hp, but with the system turned on, you would have boost, so you won't have any loss of power. Even with throttle switch disabled and only DR turned on, you only see any loss below 4000rpm. I haven't seen a partial throttle dyno with the ESC so I don't think anyone knows at what throttle position/rpm ratio the ESC becomes a restriction, but my guess is that under 1/2 throttle at over 7000 rpm you won't have any restriction what so ever. So the worst case scenario is that between 1k and 4k rpms, with a throttle position between 50% and 75% you might see a loss of of less than 10 hp.

Thanks target...this is a accurate assessment. Normal driving you will not tell a difference. At 50ish percent throttle you will not be able to tell a difference and throttle response remains the same. The throttle plate is the restriction most of the time unless you go basically WOT with the system disengaged... Then the ESC would be the restriction....probably in the order of 5 HP down low and 10 HP above 6500....this is all without DR of course.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Target70

since he didn't say in the previous post, I presume he does not want to reveal his idea till he has something to show.
Still a scuba tank with a high pressure air pump would be a similar concept to the ESC. Might take a special exhaust housing and wheel, but no extra heat under hood, no oil or turbo exhaust manifold needed. The pump shuts itself off at desired pressure. A simple pressure regulator between the the tank and the turbo "exhaust" wheel would maintain a constant pressure thus a constant boost no matter how much air the engine needed, so constant boost through the the whole rpm range. With an electric air valve, you could hook it up with a full throttle switch. Based on the speed of the valve you might not need a wastegate. BOV would still probably be necessary. All this is theoretical though as I don't know how big, heavy, power hungry a high pressure air pump would be, or how much flow would be necessary from the tank and the pressure regulator. Probably not feasible or someone would have already done it, but an interesting concept imo

after looking it up, a hp pump is too large. If this system did work, It would have to work like nos, and change out bottles as they emptied. Plus even at 3000 psi, I don't know if there is enough volume to spin up a turbo, or what kind of lag you would get.

So using compressed air to push the turbine converting the energy to then compress air into the engine?
I honestly think he needs to sound out his idea with more technical people before wasting time on it considering his previous suggestions.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by s2d4

So using compressed air to push the turbine converting the energy to then compress air into the engine?
I honestly think he needs to sound out his idea with more technical people before wasting time on it considering his previous suggestions.

This is what he said:

Originally Posted by KAOS

... Also, I'll be doing something like the phantom only nothing like the phantom (no electric motor). I hope to start fabrication in the next month or so. My end goal is to have a reliable means of boost capable of directly competing with tradition superchargers and turbos for around the same price as the phantom. It would be similar to the phantom in that is going to be a zero lag system but that's about it. Again, not building an electric supercharger or stealing anyone's idea. I believe mine is going to be the first of its kind. So if that sounds interesting, keep your eyes peeled.

As he was being I believe, intentionally vague, I just came up with a wild ass guess, as to how he might achieve it. Which I couldn't leave alone without fleshing it out a little. As to the way you put it, It sounds redundant. But If you were to just force the already compressed air into the intake, you would have to find a way to keep it from just blowing back out of the throttle body. You might be able to figure out some one way valve system, but that will be a lot of R and D. A traditional turbocharger is tried and true for creating and holding boost in the intake. The only trick is to figure out what form of potential energy to use to spin the compressor. Turbo uses exhaust, super uses direct drive belt, ESC uses batteries and electric motor. What else could be used? The first thing that came to mind was compressed air. A shop air compressor at 120psi can spin a pneumatic die grinder at 24000 rpm. Think about the potential energy of a tank with 3000 psi. There is no doubt that it would work. All you are technically doing, is storing the exhaust in a pressure tank, like you store the energy in the batteries for the ESC. Of course being a random thought, I haven't taken into account the amount cfm the tank could supply, for how long, or what modifications would be necessary to the exhaust housing/wheel. It may work great for a full 30 seconds before tank pressure drops too low to provide enough air to spin the compressor. The other problem is to make the price, and complexity of the system low enough to out weigh going traditional FI.
*edit* plus he said that it would be a zero lag system.. my proposed system would be have all the energy on tap without being tied to rpm or exhaust gas, but the turbine would still have to spool up.

[s2d4]

Yeap, hence I would be interested in this new stored/readily available power source for curiosity sake. Your suggestion of a pneumatic system makes sense so I ran with it for the point of discussion.
It is always best to ask all the critical questions first then to have wasted time/money on it though. There is just way too much to consider and his previous suggestion just lacked the practicality in actual implementation, actually the starting point was inaccurate to begin with. It did sound smart for the average Joe but yeah, that's about it.

[raven1231]

Any advice for Friday? It's been awhile since I have been to the track and for obvious reasons I never ran the frs on the 1/4 prior to the phantom lol.

[shif7i7down]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Any advice for Friday? It's been awhile since I have been to the track and for obvious reasons I never ran the frs on the 1/4 prior to the phantom lol.

Don't engage the esc right away or else you're Just gonna be spinning in place.
Try launching at lower rpm, maybe 3k to 3.5k and let it peel out off the line then go wot.
Just a suggestion but it would all depend on the condition of the track, i.e hotter weather launch higher, lower tire pressure, take out unnecessary things to reduce weight, make sure anti swerve and tradition control is off :P

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by shif7i7down

Don't engage the esc right away or else you're Just gonna be spinning in place.
Try launching at lower rpm, maybe 3k to 3.5k and let it peel out off the line then go wot.
Just a suggestion but it would all depend on the condition of the track, i.e hotter weather launch higher, lower tire pressure, take out unnecessary things to reduce weight, make sure anti swerve and tradition control is off :P

Ok yeah I'm going to be running 1/4 tank of e85 with spare and all uncessary items out. I'll try fooling around with launching at different rpms before going

[fenton]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Ok yeah I'm going to be running 1/4 tank of e85 with spare and all uncessary items out. I'll try fooling around with launching at different rpms before going

I think setting the launch control at 3500 rpm would be a good idea. Just go 75 percent throttle to get it bouncing off the limit....give it a second of clutch slip to get you off the line and then go WOT and engage. Maybe try it a couple different ways before the strip.

[fguadamuz]

Originally Posted by fenton

I think setting the launch control at 3500 rpm would be a good idea. Just go 75 percent throttle to get it bouncing off the limit....give it a second of clutch slip to get you off the line and then go WOT and engage. Maybe try it a couple different ways before the strip.

Gg

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by fguadamuz

Gg

huh?

[WNDSRFR]

Today is a sad day.
I just sent my ESC controller off on a Canadian summer vacation. It got a little tired of the Florida summer heat.
It's going to visit "THE CREATOR" (Rob).
I checked everything on the system that anyone could think of without any results. So Rob told me to send it back for evaluation. Part of his "constant quality improvement program".
He said he would either find out what the problem is and fix it or send me a new one with a new activation harness with the auto relay.
I got a feeling it will be awhile before I see it again. It has to go through customs twice. I was shocked to find out FedEx Ground is $40.00 and you have to fill out a commercial invoice. I wish Rob would move to somewhere more centrally located like Kansas.
I can't even imagine how much it would cost to send a whole system to Australia.

[WNDSRFR]

Where is Alberta anyway? On the other side of the earth?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Where is Alberta anyway? On the other side of the earth?

You could say that......