FRS VS BRZ

[nickhabi]

Decided on the BRZ lads. Ordering a white 2015 normal model.

It'll come to around $33,000 with all fees. Is this a diabolical price or on the contrary very appropriate?

Many thanks.

[peri.Laynz]

Originally Posted by nickhabi

Decided on the BRZ lads. Ordering a white 2015 normal model.

It'll come to around $33,000 with all fees. Is this a diabolical price or on the contrary very appropriate?

Many thanks.

Can get a Whiteout FRS for 23 but whatever floats your boat

For 33 I'd much rather have a WRX.

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by nickhabi

Decided on the BRZ lads. Ordering a white 2015 normal model.

It'll come to around $33,000 with all fees. Is this a diabolical price or on the contrary very appropriate?

Many thanks.

Thats $30,513 US Dollars. Seems high to me, but not sure about your taxes and registration fees.

I know there are dealers like Clint at Neuberger Motors in Colorado Springs CO that sell BRZ's for thousands under MSRP.

[litemup]

[nickhabi]

Originally Posted by peri.Laynz

Can get a Whiteout FRS for 23 but whatever floats your boat

For 33 I'd much rather have a WRX.

No I can`t. Not a brand new 2015 version anyway. Correct me if I`m wrong though.

[peri.Laynz]

Just bought one

[thill]

Originally Posted by peri.Laynz

Just bought one

That's great, but he is in Canada. You are in Georgia.. Prices in Canada are considerably higher...

[s0sl0w]

Originally Posted by litemup

No, I have not. I would love the opportunity to trade off for a couple laps with someone I trust to get a first-hand opinion.

That being said, if it's just a difference in spring-rates, I'm guessing the difference can be felt by only the most experienced of drivers. Probably not me.

It's a difference that can be felt even by a merely decent driver.

Yes, in a single corner instance (straight, corner, straight) The BRZ may feel like it understeers relative to the FR-S

However in a sequence of corners the BRZ's chassis remains composed whereas the FRS starts getting out of shape and overly tail happy. It's fun if you know how to handle it but it's also slower.

Saying the BRZ understeers is a gross misstatement however, relative to just about any car you'll drive the BRZ is not what you'd call understeering car even in the single event scenario. Any understeer is easily sorted with the gas pedal.

[tennisfreak]

Do you like sausage or tacos?

If you prefer the latter then get an FR-S.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

It's a difference that can be felt even by a merely decent driver.

Yes, in a single corner instance (straight, corner, straight) The BRZ may feel like it understeers relative to the FR-S

However in a sequence of corners the BRZ's chassis remains composed whereas the FRS starts getting out of shape and overly tail happy. It's fun if you know how to handle it but it's also slower.

Saying the BRZ understeers is a gross misstatement however, relative to just about any car you'll drive the BRZ is not what you'd call understeering car even in the single event scenario. Any understeer is easily sorted with the gas pedal.

Can confirm. You definitely don't need a racing superlicense to be able to feel the difference in handling. We had an FR-S for 91 days, it got T-boned, and we got a BRZ, and the difference is easily noticeable even when driving at 7/10ths on a windy road.

The BRZ is neutral, meaning it is capable of both understeer and oversteer. You control this by manipulating the gas and brake pedals to transfer weight to the tires you want to have more grip. Just because the ends don't immediately try to swap when you enter a corner too fast doesn't mean "the car understeers".

[tahdizzle]

All of these posts have their merrits.

But, if anyone is that concerned with suspension dynamics then they are most likely going to be changing the stock suspension anyway.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Entroper

The BRZ is neutral, meaning it is capable of both understeer and oversteer.

Not sure if you meant this the way I'm reading it, but IMO this isn't the definition of neutral. Otherwise a heavily-understeering 135i would be considered neutral because you could get it to power oversteer or rotate through trail-braking.

I think the commonly accepted definition of a neutral car is one that neither understeers, nor oversteers, in a steady-state corner. All four tires will lose grip simultaneously. I don't think any car these days is truly neutral, as even the FR-S will steady-state understeer for the most part.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

It's a difference that can be felt even by a merely decent driver.

Yes, in a single corner instance (straight, corner, straight) The BRZ may feel like it understeers relative to the FR-S

However in a sequence of corners the BRZ's chassis remains composed whereas the FRS starts getting out of shape and overly tail happy. It's fun if you know how to handle it but it's also slower.

Saying the BRZ understeers is a gross misstatement however, relative to just about any car you'll drive the BRZ is not what you'd call understeering car even in the single event scenario. Any understeer is easily sorted with the gas pedal.

Duly noted. Guess I need to start looking for some BRZ springs.

Edit: I take it back. There is an SAE definition for the terms as well as a specific test. I'm slapping my forehead for having forgotten it from school. Simply put, with the vehicle going in a fixed-radius circle, while gradually increasing speed, at the limits of adhesion, what does the driver have to do to maintain the fixed radius?

Turn more = understeer
Turn less = oversteer

I've been practising this in empty parking lots since I first started driving the car but failed to remember the reason why I did it the first time - tuning the suspension of our formula SAE car in college. DUH!

(yeah, I finally played that card)

Sticking to my original argument, the FR-S is pretty damn neutral. Pick up the speed steadily and one feels all 4 wheels let go at the same time.

This is a very specific test and, by itself, is not a fair way to describe overall handling. Compared to any other reasonably accessible performance machine on the road, out of the box, nothing comes close to either of these cars.

...IMHO

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Not sure if you meant this the way I'm reading it, but IMO this isn't the definition of neutral. Otherwise a heavily-understeering 135i would be considered neutral because you could get it to power oversteer or rotate through trail-braking.

I think the commonly accepted definition of a neutral car is one that neither understeers, nor oversteers, in a steady-state corner. All four tires will lose grip simultaneously. I don't think any car these days is truly neutral, as even the FR-S will steady-state understeer for the most part.

When I say "capable of either" I don't mean a car that understeers all the time but you can technically make it rotate through brute force. I mean it's in the middle and you can get it to go either way easily.