Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[DAEMANO]

We've seen some articles posted here and there about ESCs/ETCs... There's no doubt that they're coming, in numbers, very soon. OEMs can see the same benefits we're enjoying now. Phantom ESCs dynos show quick spool up, instantaneous max torque, less mechanical complexity, lower costs. No wonder why OEMs are getting into the game. Here we are lucky enough to benefit from nearly a decade of development by @Robftss so we're way ahead of the game for bolt-on kits. Here are some stories I've found covering the subject. Anyone find others. Post them and I'll add it to this post.

Next Audi Q7 to Debut with Electric Turbocharger?
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/22/a...harger-report/

Audi Electric Bi-Turbo Engine Revealed
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11209204...ngine-revealed

Audi brings its electric turbocharger closer to production with RS 5 TDI concept
http://www.gizmag.com/audi-electric-...s-5-tdi/32619/

Electric Supercharger Boosts Torque 50% and Reduces CO2 by 20%
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/elect...co2-by-20.html

HyBoost shows off electric supercharger in Ford Focus
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...g-for-everyone

Next Subaru WRX to Use Electric Turbocharger (older article)
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/03/n...-turbocharger/

Will BMW's Electric Turbocharger End Turbo Lag?
http://jalopnik.com/5855317/will-bmw...-end-turbo-lag

BMW Pairs Electric & Traditional Turbos to Boost Efficiency
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ost-efficiency

[Blu-by-U]

As I recall, I've only seen numbers like this from the stage 2 kit. Talk about apples and oranges. Go back to riding your Moped and leave others to their own devices. This is a freedom forum, not Obama-mechanics class.

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Wow! Talk about a cherry picked apples to rotten oranges comparison!


The Innovate SC should be very easy to install in 4-6 hours, not 8. Why do you think it requires an "experienced mechanic" to install it? Looks pretty simple to me.


What shop charges $1000 for a 4-6 hour installation?


Why does Innovate require a $700-1000 flex fuel kit but your beloved ESC does not? You can't run e85 + Innovate without a flex fuel kit? Please explain.


Why would you remove the ESC for dealer visits? Are you planning to commit fraud if you damage your engine? Nice...


Why compare the ESC on e85 to Innovate on pump gas when everyone knows how octane limited the stage 1 Innovate SC is? The Innovate SC gains much more from e85 than the ESC does.


There are many Innovate dynojet results posted so why choose a Dyno Dynamics result using undisclosed measurement mode? Was the Dyno Dynamics result in normal mode or comparison mode? The difference could be as high as +/- 20%. Which was it?


Perhaps since you're using the highest dyno results ever recorded for the ESC we should do the same for the Innovate SC... to be fair, like you are.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by neutron256

Sorry.

[raven1231]

[Perscitus]

Originally Posted by shif7i7down

Looks pretty good for a quick sketch, but...the esc chart should be pushed back another 250rpm, trq and whp should cross at 5252rpm.

Yep - it would be good to see data points back down to 1K RPM, but we don't have them in the table that was provided so the plot has to start @ 2.5K RPM. I could force HP/TQ to cross @ 5252RPM (as they should) but for now I just used the data points provided, let OpenOffice interpolate between the points (which of course is 'inaccurate') but everyone gets the picture.

[enwave]

Did you guys see that all the 2.0 maps from Shiv are hitting official release sometime today? 60+ standard/NA/Vortech maps, and another 18 for ESC, including E85 updates on both, for AT and MT.

(By the way, I interpreted @DAEMANO post to be a comparison of the two solutions closest in price, all mods inclusive -- that would be the best comparison and I think it is why he chose the charts he chose, even if that means high end ESC vs. low end Innovate)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1864782

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boofneenee]

Honestly, I think that responding to Freddy is going nowhere but cluttered up the thread with idiocy and misunderstanding. If his comments were less childish then he would be contributing to this thread and it would be constructive. Until then no one shoukd respond to any of his nonsense. Let him post vomit that no one cares to comment on and the troll will go back under the bridge.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Honestly, I think that responding to Freddy is going nowhere but cluttered up the thread with idiocy and misunderstanding. If his comments were less childish then he would be contributing to this thread and it would be constructive. Until then no one shoukd respond to any of his nonsense. Let him post vomit that no one cares to comment on and the troll will go back under the bridge.

agree completely

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by enwave

Did you guys see that all the 2.0 maps from Shiv are hitting official release sometime today? 60+ standard/NA/Vortech maps, and another 18 for ESC, including E85 updates on both, for AT and MT.

(By the way, I interpreted @DAEMANO post to be a comparison of the two solutions closest in price, all mods inclusive -- that would be the best comparison and I think it is why he chose the charts he chose, even if that means high end ESC vs. low end Innovate)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1864782

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's insane !

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by enwave

Did you guys see that all the 2.0 maps from Shiv are hitting official release sometime today? 60+ standard/NA/Vortech maps, and another 18 for ESC, including E85 updates on both, for AT and MT.

(By the way, I interpreted @DAEMANO post to be a comparison of the two solutions closest in price, all mods inclusive -- that would be the best comparison and I think it is why he chose the charts he chose, even if that means high end ESC vs. low end Innovate)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1864782

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a very good point, system price should be the main criteria for comparison I think - although the one point Freddy does make that is valid is that one is on E85 one isn't. A LOT of people do not have E85 just around the corner - so I think it would be good to include a non-E85 ESC comparied to the innovate setup as well. I feel lucky to have E85 1/2 hour away, it's great stuff, but it's not exactly convenient for me to run it all the time.

The other thing I mentioned before is subjective testing - focused mainly on part throttle driving... given that the output between the E85 ESC and the regular-gas innovate charts are pretty darned close, how does the car respond with each system when zipping around town (when you're not pedal to the floor racing).

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

That's a very good point, system price should be the main criteria for comparison I think - although the one point Freddy does make that is valid is that one is on E85 one isn't. A LOT of people do not have E85 just around the corner - so I think it would be good to include a non-E85 ESC comparied to the innovate setup as well. I feel lucky to have E85 1/2 hour away, it's great stuff, but it's not exactly convenient for me to run it all the time.

The other thing I mentioned before is subjective testing - focused mainly on part throttle driving... given that the output between the E85 ESC and the regular-gas innovate charts are pretty darned close, how does the car respond with each system when zipping around town (when you're not pedal to the floor racing).

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned that means something to some people is fuel mileage.

I don't know what the Innovate and other full time FI systems are getting, but my cruising fuel mileage is about 3-4 mpg BETTER than stock. Heck, I did one 23 or so mile all highway trip at about 62 mph and the gauge showed 40.3 mpg. (I realize that gauge is not the end all, be all measure of accuracy, but I would think it is relatively consistent compared to it's own readings).

Obviously, someone looking for a 300+ whp car is not particularly concerned about fuel mileage. But for someone like me who was looking to make the car a bit quicker as a daily driver for a small amount of money, that increased cruising fuel mileage completely offsets the reduced mileage when gettin' on it and engaging the ESC. The last three tanks I've averaged right at 30 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving... and I'm certainly not hesitant to engage the ESC just for fun.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by robwbright

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned that means something to some people is fuel mileage.

I don't know what the Innovate and other full time FI systems are getting, but my cruising fuel mileage is about 3-4 mpg BETTER than stock. Heck, I did one 23 or so mile all highway trip at about 62 mph and the gauge showed 40.3 mpg. (I realize that gauge is not the end all, be all measure of accuracy, but I would think it is relatively consistent compared to it's own readings).

Obviously, someone looking for a 300+ whp car is not particularly concerned about fuel mileage. But for someone like me who was looking to make the car a bit quicker as a daily driver for a small amount of money, that increased cruising fuel mileage completely offsets the reduced mileage when gettin' on it and engaging the ESC. The last three tanks I've averaged right at 30 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving... and I'm certainly not hesitant to engage the ESC just for fun.

I know my milage is stellar as well. I did one short trip in which I followed a semi(not too close...standard safe distance) for about 20 miles and got 4.7L/100km which translates into 50mpg. This if course is not the norm but damn impressive anyways.

My usual cruising speed of 70mph translates into about 38mpg.

I think the open flash header probably helps bring this number down as well.

Of course if you are adding lots of boost like I usually am your mileage changes quite drastically my most recent tank reported 24.5 mpg but I'm testing something out currently so lots of redlining

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by fenton

I know my milage is stellar as well. I did one short trip in which I followed a semi(not too close...standard safe distance) for about 20 miles and got 4.7L/100km which translates into 50mpg. This if course is not the norm but damn impressive anyways.

50mpg? Frickin' A!

Flat terrain or..?

The 40.3 I had was pretty hilly.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by robwbright

50mpg? Frickin' A!

Flat terrain or..?

The 40.3 I had was pretty hilly.

Fairly flat. Probably about a 300 foot drop over the 20 miles. Like I said it was essentially hyper mile mode lol.