FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

We did look at flipping the OEM manifold but it's a no go so the WRX may be an option for those who have to keep AC. I've been working with our dry sump supplier and we have a pretty solid plan to attack the external pump.

First however I have been testing my "trick" alomg with a Perrin Oil Cooler with positive results. I will share the results shortly....which means when I have time. LOL!

Just taking a wild stab in the dark. If you've ever built a turbo dodge you should be familiar with this.

[Grip Ronin]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

My oiling system is so modified now you can't compare it to stock anymore. I have 20 psi at idle and it will get lower at very high oil temps but even then about 10 psi.

I believe OEM spec is 7-10 psi at 195F.

Ohh u found a way to modify the internal pump?

[Element Tuning]

I've never built at turbo Dodge so I have no idea what that items is. I feel dumb. LOL!

Ok so as you all know we modified the 2015 WRX oil pump and cover to work with the FA20 motor in the FRS/BRZ. The reason was so that we could take advantage of the 14mm oil pump but in the end it just didn't work well enough to outweigh all the negatives. I just couldn't fully tune the engine properly even with the Hydra EMS as without closed loop variable cam timing I was not able to both advance and retard the cam timing.

So we knew we need to go back to the original FA20 timing chain cover so that we could retain the proper cam phasing setup. We made our modifications and crossed our fingers. Between the modifications we made and by adding a Perrin Oil Cooler we were able to actually get the pump to work better than the 14mm oil pump. The oil cooler was also a huge asset to making this all work.



Now as long as the vehicle is in motion so the oil cooler can do it's job, coupled with our modifications, we are getting as much as 80 psi of oil pressure even after a few pulls. As things get hotter we are dropping lower but still I'm near 70 psi.


While I could have made our own oil cooler we decided to go with the Perrin because they use all the same great parts I would have used such as Mocal, Setrab, Aeroquip, and OE Subaru so we decided to go with a pre-made kit to make life easy for us. Even in our very custom turbo kit plumbing and front end the Perrin kit easily fit with no modifications other than how we mounted the cooler itself.

Now how much RPM can I run and still have the oil pressure I need?


As you guys know I'm running one of our Pro Comp motors and we can pull 9k RPM like it's nothing but getting oil pressure at those RPMs is a challenge. Even with the internal modifications we've made I'm seeing the oil pressure drop in the 8k+ RPM range. This is why I've added the oil accumulator. It's a product that's been around for ages and for what it is, it works well. This 3 quart system holds about 3.5 extra quarts of pressurized oil. The system is designed to hold the last peak oil pressure you put into it so if the engine was pushing 75 psi and it starts to drop at high RPM the accumulator pushes the oil into the main bearings (where I'm feeding it to) so that they get high oil pressure for longer. It works the same in terms of momentary oil starvation of the oil pickup.

Now our total oil capacity is pushing 10.5 quarts and all this extra oil leads to thermal stability which we need in the FRS/BRZ. With the Element Tuning engine mods, the Perrin Oil Cooler, and the oil accumulator this about the best you're going to get before moving where we will go next. These internal modifications will be standard as part of all of our engine builds and I would also say the oil cooler is pretty mandatory on this car. If you want to push past 8k RPM the accumulator will be required.

Next we'll be moving to an external oil pump and dry sump solution. This is why I mounted the oil accumulator where I did. While it's totally engine bling there's a slight inconvenience with the manual valve. With an electronic valve the driver can open and close the system without having to pop the hood. Also for a race car I want all the weight I can get in the rear so I would have mounted it in the trunk. I think for most street guys this is an awesome spot so you don't have to penetrate the fire wall with oil hoses.

Thanks and stay tuned!
Phil Grabow

[wizzo]

Is that setrab cooler you installed big enough or would a custom application with an oil cooler a little bigger be a better option?

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I've never built at turbo Dodge so I have no idea what that items is. I feel dumb. LOL!

That's the OE oil restrictor that reduces oil flow to the head. It prevents the engine from pumping all of its oil into the valve cover area under hard turns that prevent the oil from draining back to the block. 'Hard' turns being a relative term. I'd hazard a guess that it also helps maintain oil pressure under greater than low rpm.


That's a pretty glowing review for Perrin. I can't wait to read what you've done inside the engine.

[Element Tuning]

I think the oil cooler is a good size and while it has air flowing across it, it works really well. I think in my race application I will pull it to the side of my intercooler and duct it really well. In a street application I think adding a fan could be really beneficial as you can see the oil pressure increase as you drive and cool the oil after you've been still for a long time.

[wizzo]

Kool, im planning to do a custom oil cooler mounted in the grill and instead of a 15 row, im thinking to jump it to a 20 row, our summer temperatures have been 45C+ (105ish F+) for the last 2 months, mid day and about 36C at night.

I was wondering if there is any downsides to running an oil cooler that is bigger while i am still N/A?

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I think the oil cooler is a good size and while it has air flowing across it, it works really well. I think in my race application I will pull it to the size of my intercooler and duct it really well. In a street application I think adding a fan could be really beneficial as you can see the oil pressure increase as you drive and cool the oil after you've been still for a long time.

[Element Tuning]

Sorry that was a typo in my post and it was supposed to say the "side" of my intercooler. This way I'm not putting any extra heat into my intercooler or radiator.

For NA I'm not so sure going bigger is the best idea. There is a point at which the increased restriction and also the volume of oil will affect oil pressure negatively. I'm not sure even in a turbo application its any better for the same reason.

[Brzzee]

Please provide the details and source of the AN-12 to metric adapter used to connect the Accusump to oil galley.

Way enjoying your saga of PSI and oil temps.

Several shops are producing replacement oil pans. Earlier you said baffling around the oil pick-up continued to be a weak point in the designs.

What improvements might you suggest to the pans you have seen?

I'm staying NA for the next several seasons with focus on STX with four to six track days a year. I'd like to add a pan, oil heat exchanger, instrumentation, and Accusump with a remote valve.

[bimmer635csi]

Is this of any interest to this thread?

http://commetsmigtest.sandbox.autobl...xcess-oil-use/

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Brzzee

Please provide the details and source of the AN-12 to metric adapter used to connect the Accusump to oil galley.

Way enjoying your saga of PSI and oil temps.

Several shops are producing replacement oil pans. Earlier you said baffling around the oil pick-up continued to be a weak point in the designs.

What improvements might you suggest to the pans you have seen?

I'm staying NA for the next several seasons with focus on STX with four to six track days a year. I'd like to add a pan, oil heat exchanger, instrumentation, and Accusump with a remote valve.

Many of the aftermarket pans I'm seeing are not a good design for road racing as they are making the bottom of the pan flat which just give the oil more room to move away from the pickup. The pickup area should be "sumped."

The thread pitch of the oil galley for the mains is 18 x 1.5mm.

Just remember an oil accumulator like the "Accusump" will not increase your oil pressure which is the main issue (we did this with internal engine mods and the oil cooler). Now with NA the OEM oil pressure isn't a deal breaker so the oil accumulator is more about having some extra capacity and for the times the oil pickup may starve momentarily.

Warning: Your oil accumulator can hold 3+ quarts more than your standard oil capacity which means you have a problem when it pushes that into your motor. If you notice on my race car I'm running a 1 gallon breather/catch tank. Only severe oil starvation or high RPM pressure drop would cause it to push that much oil into the motor however.

If we were building this on a customer's car you need to design the entire system accordingly or your car could spill oil out a dinky and worthless catch can causing a fire or sucking it into the intake.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by bimmer635csi

Is this of any interest to this thread?

http://commetsmigtest.sandbox.autobl...xcess-oil-use/

Thanks but oil consumption doesn't really have an impact on oil pressure unless you burn up all your oil. LOL!

[Element Tuning]

Unfortunately I have a leaking valve on the accumulator. This the ball valve with yellow handle. It's actually leaking where the manufacturer assembled the male threads into the valve itself. It will have to come apart and I'll have to seal it and tighten it better.

[mike the snake]

Not sure if it's been asked, but what about running a pump like the AVO pump, driven by the cams, and plumb that to the mains?

Wouldn't that increase pressure to the mains? A small resevoir might also help in times of scavenging.