Starting off in 1st gear

[aristo]

^

I also thought the first gear feels very quick and short as well but a friend who drives an evo says that it's normal.. for most manual cars

since I don't want to run first gear all the way to 4k rpm for gas economy purposes, I have to shift to second like a mad man just to keep up with automatic cars going normal pace

sometimes I think to myself "they should have just combined gears 1 and 2 together" so I guess that would be a 5 speed? maybe a 5 speeds 1st gear does last longer and can go further at low rpm

and about the starting off in second gear I think it can be useful in some situations but maybe a bad habit can form if you do it too often and you will 'forget' how to use first gear :0

[paulca]

I always start in 1st unless it's down a steep hill when there is no point.

But I get straight out into second pretty much as soon as the car is rolling, 7 -8 mph.

It's good learn the minimal speeds for each gear and they are pretty low. Lower than you might expect. 2nd for example will not complain if you are light on the throttle but only doing 5 or 6 mph. 3rd will work from 15mph, 4th from 20mph, 5th from 25mph and 6th from 30. Just don't use much accelerator or it will labor, gentle, gentle. Adjust for hills, just drop it one gear from normal flatland minimums.

For learning we are always taught, 1st to 10mph, 2nd to 20mph, 3rd to 30mph, 4th to 40, 5th to 50, 6th to whatever.

I'm just saying you can go a lot lower if you want to save fuel and are light and gentle with the throttle. If you floor it in 6th at 30mph it will protest a little, quite a bit actually.

Over here petrol costs a shit load due to fuel duty. It costs me around £55 to fill the GT from the low warning light. That's probably about $90. So when not having fun we tend to drive "eco style".

You can use the shift light indicator for eco driving, it's smart enough to know how much throttle you are using and when you shift based on that, but it will have you in 6th at 30mph pretty quickly.

It means many, many more shifts, though you can obviously block shift down, 6th to 3rd to 1st for example, or just 6th to a stop.

I can get 35MPG in town driving/commuting, but that's UK gallons which are a bit bigger. I can get 43MPG when cruising.

[paulca]

One serious warning.... If you rev it out in 2nd. DO NOT attempt to block shift straight to 6th. I learnt this the hard way. The syncro on 6th can't handle it and it will buzz loudly. It's annoying as the basic highway speed limit here is about the top end of 2nd. So if you don't want to speed I would transfer from "Like I stole it" to "Cruzin" at the top end of 2nd.

Better to go via 4th or wait until the revs drop down to about 3k before pushing into 6th.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by paulca

The trickiest part is drive train slack. Granted our cars are fairly new and tight. Older cars and dingy old vans it's a different story. Any time you go from positive throttle to engine braking you get a jolt due to drive train slack and vice versa going from engine braking to throttle. Much, much more noticable in 1st or 2nd. When newbies get caught in a cycle of this, sometimes setting off, sometimes getting into 2nd, we call it Kangeroo petrol. The trick is to get the timing right and the clutch and throttle smooth.

You can try this if you want, just roll in 1st about 5-10mph and lift your foot off the throttle and then a second later back on and off and on. You'll find the car rocking and jerking you in the seat. Then try it in an 10 year old car and you'll find it's a lot worse, depending on how the engine and gear box mounts have been maintained.

I think the drivetrain slack in my car has gotten significantly worse since I bought it. I've only had it for 2y/15k miles (numerous track days and autocross events thrown in), but the drivetrain slack is now worse than any other sporty car I've owned.

I like that term though, Kangaroo petrol

Originally Posted by rs999

BTW, this car is very fuel efficient on the highway compared to the GTI. In the GTI I rarely break 31MPG in cruise control. In this car in 6th gear I was seeing 35 MPG, which is a really nice bonus that I probably erased with all my over-revving.

Yeah I've also noticed this. My GTI w/DSG should theoretically get better gas mileage (higher EPA rating), but gets 2 mpg worse in the real world.

Originally Posted by aristo

I also thought the first gear feels very quick and short as well but a friend who drives an evo says that it's normal.. for most manual cars

since I don't want to run first gear all the way to 4k rpm for gas economy purposes, I have to shift to second like a mad man just to keep up with automatic cars going normal pace

sometimes I think to myself "they should have just combined gears 1 and 2 together" so I guess that would be a 5 speed? maybe a 5 speeds 1st gear does last longer and can go further at low rpm

and about the starting off in second gear I think it can be useful in some situations but maybe a bad habit can form if you do it too often and you will 'forget' how to use first gear :0

Haha I must be the only person on this site who wants a shorter 1st gear. To me, it takes way too long to redline 1st from a stop, probably due to the torque dip. I'd shorten 1st and 2nd if I could.

[rs999]

Originally Posted by paulca

One serious warning.... If you rev it out in 2nd. DO NOT attempt to block shift straight to 6th. I learnt this the hard way. The syncro on 6th can't handle it and it will buzz loudly. It's annoying as the basic highway speed limit here is about the top end of 2nd. So if you don't want to speed I would transfer from "Like I stole it" to "Cruzin" at the top end of 2nd.

Better to go via 4th or wait until the revs drop down to about 3k before pushing into 6th.

In your example above could you block shift up from a stop from 1 to 3 to 5 or 6?

I think that would be smoother. Or maybe 1-2-4-6?

[paulca]

Originally Posted by rs999

In your example above could you block shift up from a stop from 1 to 3 to 5 or 6?

I think that would be smoother. Or maybe 1-2-4-6?

Yea, reving out 2nd, you can go via 4th or 3rd and 5th. 1,2, 4, 6. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6. You don't even need to let the clutch out in 4th, all you are using it for is to spin the shafts to a closer speed to make 6th easier on the syncro. Though you might as well as it will help drop the revs some too.

The trouble is that, as you come off the top of 2nd your revs are just starting to fall from 7.4k. The clutch is in and you are in neutral so the gear box is spinning on it's own, but still spinning for an engine speed of 7.4k. When you then try 6th gear the shaft has to spin down to road speed for 6th which is around 2.5-3k for 60. Thats a large gap and while the shafts are light, it's still too much to ask if you are a little rough or forceful.

Gearbox mech's correct me here if I'm wrong ^^^

You can hold it gently on the 6th syncro and wait till the shaft get down to the right speed and it will pop in, but that's bound to wear it.

Via 4th is probably much better. Hell you can just leave the clutch down and go through them all, but that might be overkill.

[Jyn]

Does anyone else's revs go up when they clutch in from 5th to 6th? That's the only gear I've noticed where my revs will bounce up from 2.8k/3k to about 3.2-3.3k. Makes me have to hold the clutch in longer before waiting for the revs to fall to about 2.0-2.2k. This is at about 40-45mph.

[theom]

I think getting the clutch adjustment right is very important. Especially for novice manual drivers.
I drove three FRS when at the dealer. Each cars' clutch engagement point was different.
One was so close to all the way out that I doubt the clutch was completely engaged.

Just my opinion, but I think the beginning of the engagement point should be approximately 1.5 - 2 inches from pedal all the way in. Any further out and it becomes much more difficult to predict. It also makes it really hard for novices to master hill starts. The predictability of the engagement point is very important. If the catch point is in the correct spot I find the FRS to be an very easy manual to master.

It is an easy adjustment that the dealer should do for free or for a very small fee. That is if you are uncomfortable doing it yourself with the help of the DIY available. If you are unfamiliar with clutch mechanics, better to have the shop do it, or a friend who knows proper clutch engagement. It is imperative that the pedal adjustment allows for the clutch to be both fully engaged and fully disengaged.

[billwot]

Originally Posted by Manic

Unleess I'm on a hill or in a parking lot, I do most of my starts in 2nd.

You must really like replacing clutches.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by billwot

You must really like replacing clutches.

Don't know yet, I'll tell you how I feel about it when I do!

[schmearcampain]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Yup, in fact the more experience you have the trickier it is to drive this car smoothly right away. I still have issues. Driving quickly and driving smoothly are hard to do in this car because the clutch pedal just isn't well designed.

I have no problems with the clutch pedal, but the tiny gas pedal spaced far away from the brake pedal was a real problem for heel-toeing (or in my case, using the inside and outside of my foot). Fortunately, it's easily fixable with a cusco pedal adapter.

[rs999]

Drove the FR-S home from work today after rush hour traffic.

The drive was much smoother, no stalls except when I got home and forgot to push the clutch in while coming to a stop in the driveway.

I think I am going to give this 6MT until 2015 to wow me. If I find driving stick pointless I might trade in on a used FR-S automatic.

[berkbrzfan]

Manual cars take slightly more time than autos to get used to simply because of the 'manual' element in them. Each model of a manual car is setup differently and so even if you are comfortable driving manual in Car A does not mean you will be comfortable driving Car B manual.

Just give yourself some more time with the car and you will involuntarily know how to be smooth with your shifts. Nobody wants to rev too much or jerk the car and so you will adjust yourself ever so slightly every time it happens until you learn to eliminate it.

Good luck!

[paulca]

Yea every manual is slightly different, but it's amazing how quickly you adjust. The basics adjust in minutes, the rest, like smoothness takes a little longer. Some cars are easier than others too, basic little hatchbacks (compacts) tend to deliberately easy, just a bit soulless.