CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Malt]

I just purchased 4 MPSS in 225/45R17 to replace my stock primacy's which I'm really looking forward to getting put on. I finally got my rear LCA's and hope to get my rear camber issues straightened out with -2 all around with a 1/16th toe in at the rear. Riding on RCE T2's with roughly a 1" lower using Myles' compression/rebound settings. This is a mostly daily driven car but I've finally found some time and I hopefully will be going to VIR this september but I've noticed some body roll, which probably will be somewhat resolved with the stiffer sidewalls on the PSS's. I'm curious if RCE's adjustable swaybars would be a recommended upgrade to round out my suspension and tame some of the body roll.

[FastWhite]

Originally Posted by was385

IIRC, you are only allowed to replace one sway bar in street. If so, your options are pretty limited. If the car is pushing, I'd go back to the stock front bar because the only other options I really see are camber bolts (though I'm working under the assumption that you already have maxed out bolts), tire pressures, and changing your driving style.

This just confirms what I was already thinking. Yes I do have the crash bolts.
You'll have to clarify on my driving style? And ya you don't know how I drive. Something general would. Just trying to improve.


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[was385]

Originally Posted by FastWhite

This just confirms what I was already thinking. Yes I do have the crash bolts.
You'll have to clarify on my driving style? And ya you don't know how I drive. Something general would. Just trying to improve.


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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that your driving style is bad, just that maybe adjust to try to combat the understeer. I know when I ran stockish last year, I was bringing too much speed into turns a lot of the time and overturning the steering wheel, which was seriously pushing the car. I would still try switching back to the OEM sway to see how it feels. It took me getting camber plates up front before I really felt that the beefed up front sway was actually helping me but obviously that is your personal preference in terms of how you want the car to drive.

[FastWhite]

Thick skin at this end. I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH. I'll just go somewhere and cry LOL
With my old STI I would always charge entry too much. The Koni's and the front bar together have changed the balance of the car. Just need more testing and playing with it. I know I need brake pads now as I am actuating ABS most of the time, or still charging. But I will put the stock bar back on and then stiffen up the Koni's.
To put camber plates on take me to STX. That will be in 2015. Because it definitely feels like it needs more rear bar as set up now.
Thanks for the tid bits. Experimmenting I will go.


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[Pabloc]

Allignment Qs -

Lots of posts re: allignment, but I am confused.

What would ya'all suggest as a good allignment for the stated goals with this equipment?

HVT ft. camber plates
SPC RLCAs
RCW Yellows


I use the car as a daily driver (although not the primary vehicle). In addition:
Regular fast backroad use on street tires;
10-20 track days/yr on DOT tires (17 x 7.5 rims w/225 or 235 section tires and, yes - track pads too).

Recognizing the varied uses, what would be a good compromise/starting allignment?

Great thread - Thanks to all

[NissanGuy]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I don't know if I'm interpreting your concern properly.

When we utilized stock everything, we had a crash bolt used to give us a little extra camber. We used 225/45/17 Hankook RS3 in front and 215/45/17 Dunlop Z1 Star Spec in the rear. The RS3 has more overall dry grip than the Z1SS to begin with. Toe-out theoretically gives you better turn-in and better cornering rotation. Now this is an absolutely retarded setup, but it was better than the understeer issues we were having.

With that said, stock suspension does have the best travel. In fact, if you want to utilize stock suspension, we recommend Raceseng camber plates front and SPL rear LCA. You want more front camber than the rear to give you a better turn-in and better sustained cornering characteristics. Also, this will make sure your front doesn't get positive camber upon full compression.

Ping us if you're interested in this setup.

I think I largely know what I want in terms of alignment, I'm mostly just asking what dampers would work most comfortably with stock. Sounds like there are already measurements in the works, so I guess I wait and see which dampers have the nicest graph. I hardly know a thing about dampers, you see.

My eventual goal is graceful corner-entry oversteer, and mid corner neutral behavior. On stock springs and tires, with ride quality as nice as possible, and with conservative alignment settings. I've already got adjustable camber parts, do you have any data on dampers for that goal? Or other recommendations as well... The only other mod I currently have is subframe bushing inserts.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I think I largely know what I want in terms of alignment, I'm mostly just asking what dampers would work most comfortably with stock. Sounds like there are already measurements in the works, so I guess I wait and see which dampers have the nicest graph. I hardly know a thing about dampers, you see.

My eventual goal is graceful corner-entry oversteer, and mid corner neutral behavior. On stock springs and tires, with ride quality as nice as possible, and with conservative alignment settings. I've already got adjustable camber parts, do you have any data on dampers for that goal? Or other recommendations as well... The only other mod I currently have is subframe bushing inserts.

Actually alignment and spring rate is a huge deal in that regard. The staggered spring rate with higher rear spring rate has done well for us. Stock dampers are capable.

Here's what happens when you run stock tires, stock suspension, factory catalytic converters, and Subaru crash bolts to get like -1.0 degrees of front camber on a car with 800 miles on it.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7EgQGxA4g"]Jackson Racing Supercharged BRZ Track Shakedown - YouTube[/ame]

[NissanGuy]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Actually alignment and spring rate is a huge deal in that regard. The staggered spring rate with higher rear spring rate has done well for us. Stock dampers are capable.

Here's what happens when you run stock tires, stock suspension, factory catalytic converters, and Subaru crash bolts to get like -1.0 degrees of front camber on a car with 800 miles on it.

Stagger: As in, Subaru front and scion rear springs?

For a little while I ran 42 minutes of front camber and that felt like just a hair too much for me, at 35 it feels more progressive. I feel that big camber sacrifices transient grip. Admittedly I'm splitting hairs, and going about things the hard way.

It's still a million times better than stock, where the rears had 2 degrees and the front had one negative and one positive reading!

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

Stagger: As in, Subaru front and scion rear springs?

For a little while I ran 42 minutes of front camber and that felt like just a hair too much for me, at 35 it feels more progressive. I feel that big camber sacrifices transient grip. Admittedly I'm splitting hairs, and going about things the hard way.

It's still a million times better than stock, where the rears had 2 degrees and the front had one negative and one positive reading!

That's not very much camber. Upon full compression on stock alignment, you will see positive camber in front which is not good at utilizing the tire contact patch efficiently. For reference, we didn't measure the camber during that day. We installed the crash bolts, pressed the top of the hub inboard, and torqued down the bolts. The assumption is at -1.0º of camber from past alignment data.

Staggered spring rates = not the same spring rate front and rear (ie: 10kg/mm front and 12kg/mm rear)
Non-staggered spring rates = same spring rate front and rear (ie: 10kg/mm front and 10kg/mm rear)

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I think I largely know what I want in terms of alignment, I'm mostly just asking what dampers would work most comfortably with stock. Sounds like there are already measurements in the works, so I guess I wait and see which dampers have the nicest graph. I hardly know a thing about dampers, you see.

My eventual goal is graceful corner-entry oversteer, and mid corner neutral behavior. On stock springs and tires, with ride quality as nice as possible, and with conservative alignment settings. I've already got adjustable camber parts, do you have any data on dampers for that goal? Or other recommendations as well... The only other mod I currently have is subframe bushing inserts.

Your options for off the shelf replacement fixed perch dampers are:

Koni Yellow
Bilstein HD (B6)
Bilstein Sport (B8)

Don't bother with the Bilstein Sports on stock springs.

Bilstein and Koni will be better in transitions than stock for sure. Bilstein has a bit of gas pressure for "platform" which I generally like and the Konis are adjustable which is fun to play with. Both pretty good shocks. Konis are an insert up front which is a pain to install.

I wouldn't recommend reducing low speed compression damping. Another option (if you really want to stick with stock springs) would be to trim your front bumptops just a little. I haven't tried this with OEM springs and frankly wouldn't recommend it, but if you want more brake dive this would be the easy/better way.

Your alignment is very conservative. If you want to get the car to dance on stock springs, you'll want quite a bit more negative camber up front especially if you've moved on from the OEM tires.

We've posted the shock dyno charts for the OEM dampers somewhere on here, I can dig for them later if you like. They're also somewhere on our FB page.

- Andy

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Malt

I just purchased 4 MPSS in 225/45R17 to replace my stock primacy's which I'm really looking forward to getting put on. I finally got my rear LCA's and hope to get my rear camber issues straightened out with -2 all around with a 1/16th toe in at the rear. Riding on RCE T2's with roughly a 1" lower using Myles' compression/rebound settings. This is a mostly daily driven car but I've finally found some time and I hopefully will be going to VIR this september but I've noticed some body roll, which probably will be somewhat resolved with the stiffer sidewalls on the PSS's. I'm curious if RCE's adjustable swaybars would be a recommended upgrade to round out my suspension and tame some of the body roll.

Probably got lost in the flood of messages but I'd love some input on whether adjustable sways would be something worthwhile with my setup. @Racecomp Engineering

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Malt

I just purchased 4 MPSS in 225/45R17 to replace my stock primacy's which I'm really looking forward to getting put on. I finally got my rear LCA's and hope to get my rear camber issues straightened out with -2 all around with a 1/16th toe in at the rear. Riding on RCE T2's with roughly a 1" lower using Myles' compression/rebound settings. This is a mostly daily driven car but I've finally found some time and I hopefully will be going to VIR this september but I've noticed some body roll, which probably will be somewhat resolved with the stiffer sidewalls on the PSS's. I'm curious if RCE's adjustable swaybars would be a recommended upgrade to round out my suspension and tame some of the body roll.

The bars will tame some of the body roll...car will react a little quicker and stay flat. It will be an improvement if you're only running -2 camber up front (ideally you'd want more neg camber, but less is needed with less roll). See what you think when you get the tires first though. What were your previous tires?

- Andy

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The bars will tame some of the body roll...car will react a little quicker and stay flat. It will be an improvement if you're only running -2 camber up front (ideally you'd want more, but less camber needed with less roll). See what you think when you get the tires first though. What were your previous tires?

- Andy

The stock Primacy's

This is a daily driver first and formost. I've got no issues getting an alignment before and after track days if you think -3 up front would be more suitable with the HPSS's. The alignment shop I use loves my Raceseng camber plates and said that he wishes all his customers had something that was as nice/easy to adjust.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Malt

The stock Primacy's

This is a daily driver first and formost. I've got no issues getting an alignment before and after track days if you think -3 up front would be more suitable with the HPSS's. The alignment shop I use loves my Raceseng camber plates and said that he wishes all his customers had something that was as nice/easy to adjust.

You would definitely benefit from more camber but it's a compromise (with convenience or tire wear).

We ran larger sways with T2s on 245 MPSS and it was such a good set-up.

- Andy