CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[NissanGuy]

I'm hoping to find a set of dampers to pair to the stock springs (or maybe a Subaru/Scion hybrid), to improve ride quality first, and controllability slightly. What can you recommend?

I've tried Tokico Blue HP shocks in a number of cars, and I love the way they perform and ride. They simply never feel over or under-damped to me in any of the applications I've tried. I love it a bit less when they leak, every damn time.

I'm especially looking to maximise brake dive, which I believe means I want soft low-speed compression damping, whereas the stock BRZ strut feels very stiff in that regard.

The BRZ struts feel overkill in terms of rebound damping, while the FRS dampers feel very soft and somewhat nonlinear to me. Am I on the right track there? I can't seem to find any Scion v. Subaru comparisons...

Can you recommend a higher-quality damper with similar damping characteristics to Tokico?

[troek]

every shock dyno ive seen shows brz and fr-s dampers to be identical. only springs vary. although ive read toyota articles that says differtnly, so far no one has shown supporting evidence.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I'm hoping to find a set of dampers to pair to the stock springs (or maybe a Subaru/Scion hybrid), to improve ride quality first, and controllability slightly. What can you recommend?

I've tried Tokico Blue HP shocks in a number of cars, and I love the way they perform and ride. They simply never feel over or under-damped to me in any of the applications I've tried. I love it a bit less when they leak, every damn time.

I'm especially looking to maximise brake dive, which I believe means I want soft low-speed compression damping, whereas the stock BRZ strut feels very stiff in that regard.

The BRZ struts feel overkill in terms of rebound damping, while the FRS dampers feel very soft and somewhat nonlinear to me. Am I on the right track there? I can't seem to find any Scion v. Subaru comparisons...

Can you recommend a higher-quality damper with similar damping characteristics to Tokico?

What is your budget?

[gramicci101]

Why are you trying to keep the stock springs, rather than upgrading the springs to match the struts?

[NissanGuy]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Why are you trying to keep the stock springs, rather than upgrading the springs to match the struts?

I'm trying to maximise brake dive in order to reduce understeer on corner entry. Plus, ride quality and suspension geometry are often best with stock. After having a pretty low Altima (a car which is exactly 7 blocks long) I'm delighted to pull into driveways without worry.

Originally Posted by CSG David

What is your budget?

I'm not cheap, but let's not be bananas either. Anything north of $3K would be an extremely hard sell. I imagine $1500-$2000 is probable. At any rate, to be honest, this is still a ways off. I want exhaust and wheels first and that's like $5K right there haha.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I'm trying to maximise brake dive in order to reduce understeer on corner entry. Plus, ride quality and suspension geometry are often best with stock. After having a pretty low Altima (a car which is exactly 7 blocks long) I'm delighted to pull into driveways without worry.



I'm not cheap, but let's not be bananas either. Anything north of $3K would be an extremely hard sell. I imagine $1500-$2000 is probable. At any rate, to be honest, this is still a ways off. I want exhaust and wheels first and that's like $5K right there haha.

The reason I ask is because there are options that can work for stock spring height setups. We're waiting on shock dynos to provide additional feedback on their setups.

Alignment and suspension setup is going to help you out on the understeer mitigation. We've done everything possible to reduce the understeer on the stock setup. We've even done a reverse stagger on tires + toe out front and rear. LOL!

[NissanGuy]

Originally Posted by CSG David

The reason I ask is because there are options that can work for stock spring height setups. We're waiting on shock dynos to provide additional feedback on their setups.

Alignment and suspension setup is going to help you out on the understeer mitigation. We've done everything possible to reduce the understeer on the stock setup. We've even done a reverse stagger on tires + toe out front and rear. LOL!

Reverse stagger? Come on, haha! I'd love to see some dynos, that's for sure. That way I'll know whether or not I'm crazy. In the meantime, I maintain that FR-S rides like a Camry and BRZ rides like it's on cheap coilovers.

I've had massive improvement from alignment but I think I'm at the limit in terms of that. It's my only car, so I'm keeping the toe pretty much zero. Rear camber 50 minutes is the lowest I can get within the toe adjustment, and front camber 35 minutes is basically the highest I can go without the traction feeling erratic to me. I find too much camber very unnerving: the way there's only grip if you approach smoothly and strongly, is little help over rough ground. Of course, I align the car with my fat (125lb) ass in the driver's seat.

The mid-corner balance is pretty much exactly how I like it, but I miss entering corners sideways like in the Altima. Unless someone knows how to reprogram the ABS for a rear bias? I feel like HKS will do something about that, wildass guess.

I actually have no clue at all: what does front toe do?

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

I'm hoping to find a set of dampers to pair to the stock springs (or maybe a Subaru/Scion hybrid), to improve ride quality first, and controllability slightly. What can you recommend?

I've tried Tokico Blue HP shocks in a number of cars, and I love the way they perform and ride. They simply never feel over or under-damped to me in any of the applications I've tried. I love it a bit less when they leak, every damn time.

I'm especially looking to maximise brake dive, which I believe means I want soft low-speed compression damping, whereas the stock BRZ strut feels very stiff in that regard.

The BRZ struts feel overkill in terms of rebound damping, while the FRS dampers feel very soft and somewhat nonlinear to me. Am I on the right track there? I can't seem to find any Scion v. Subaru comparisons...

Can you recommend a higher-quality damper with similar damping characteristics to Tokico?

Have you looked into the Bilstein B6 dampers? They're supposed to match quite well with stock springs. Pretty sure you can get away with using stock springs with the B8 as well even though they're actually designed for lowered springs. The B8 has a shorter body so will give you a slight drop as well.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

Reverse stagger? Come on, haha! I'd love to see some dynos, that's for sure. That way I'll know whether or not I'm crazy. In the meantime, I maintain that FR-S rides like a Camry and BRZ rides like it's on cheap coilovers.

I've had massive improvement from alignment but I think I'm at the limit in terms of that. It's my only car, so I'm keeping the toe pretty much zero. Rear camber 50 minutes is the lowest I can get within the toe adjustment, and front camber 35 minutes is basically the highest I can go without the traction feeling erratic to me. I find too much camber very unnerving: the way there's only grip if you approach smoothly and strongly, is little help over rough ground. Of course, I align the car with my fat (125lb) ass in the driver's seat.

The mid-corner balance is pretty much exactly how I like it, but I miss entering corners sideways like in the Altima. Unless someone knows how to reprogram the ABS for a rear bias? I feel like HKS will do something about that, wildass guess.

I actually have no clue at all: what does front toe do?

I don't know if I'm interpreting your concern properly.

When we utilized stock everything, we had a crash bolt used to give us a little extra camber. We used 225/45/17 Hankook RS3 in front and 215/45/17 Dunlop Z1 Star Spec in the rear. The RS3 has more overall dry grip than the Z1SS to begin with. Toe-out theoretically gives you better turn-in and better cornering rotation. Now this is an absolutely retarded setup, but it was better than the understeer issues we were having.

With that said, stock suspension does have the best travel. In fact, if you want to utilize stock suspension, we recommend Raceseng camber plates front and SPL rear LCA. You want more front camber than the rear to give you a better turn-in and better sustained cornering characteristics. Also, this will make sure your front doesn't get positive camber upon full compression.

Ping us if you're interested in this setup.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by NissanGuy

Rear camber 50 minutes is the lowest I can get within the toe adjustment, and front camber 35 minutes is basically the highest I can go without the traction feeling erratic to me.

Is it just me, or is that camber very low? 50 minutes is about 0.8 degrees rear and 35 minutes is about 0.6 degrees front.

[mike the snake]

I have 18x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear with 245/265 MPSS tires, 1.5" lowered on ST coilovers. -2 camber all round. Presently I have 300WHP.

I installed a thicker rear swaybar to help with understeer.

Am I correct in thinking the stiffer rear swaybar might help balance the handling with the staggered wheel/tire setup?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I have 18x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear with 245/265 MPSS tires, 1.5" lowered on ST coilovers. -2 camber all round. Presently I have 300WHP.

I installed a thicker rear swaybar to help with understeer.

Am I correct in thinking the stiffer rear swaybar might help balance the handling with the staggered wheel/tire setup?

Yes, just don't go too big.

- Andy

[FastWhite]

Whats too big and then what are the recommendations?
I am running in C street, Koni's a 20 mm front sway, 225 rivals
I run best on full stiff in the rear and full soft to 1/4 from full soft. I am still pushing a bit. My time are better with this configuration.
Thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[was385]

Originally Posted by FastWhite

Whats too big and then what are the recommendations?
I am running in C street, Koni's a 20 mm front sway, 225 rivals
I run best on full stiff in the rear and full soft to 1/4 from full soft. I am still pushing a bit. My time are better with this configuration.
Thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IIRC, you are only allowed to replace one sway bar in street. If so, your options are pretty limited. If the car is pushing, I'd go back to the stock front bar because the only other options I really see are camber bolts (though I'm working under the assumption that you already have maxed out bolts), tire pressures, and changing your driving style.