Disabling Traction Control (TC) and Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) Completely

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Originally Posted by trackmagic

BabyGodzillaGTi-R, if the car does not have enough power to spin the wheels then why do you want a tighter LSD? A tighter LSD will increase understeer.

My BMW has an open diff which is perfect for my car that has about 160HP (or maybe less) since it can't spin the wheels anyways.

Oh sorry i forgotten to add to the wish list.
A nice V8 from the Lexus ISF or a Cosworth built 2.5litre crate motor with a GT35 size turbo remote mounted.

But like i said it's a wish list. As a road car and after coming back to reality the car is pretty good as it is.
It might not be the fastest in a straight line nor does it give out that signature flat four sound (sounds really sterile) but i think it's a good all rounder as a street car similar along the lines of an MX5 and RX8.
Just my 2 cents opinion.

Was driving an E90 325i for awhile and being greedy i like the idea of a clutch pack lsd as its not fun being an idiot behind the wheel with an open diff when it slides well on left corners but its pretty hard to slide it on right corners where the rear inside wheel keeps lighting up.

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

^ This claim is worth checking out, but no other tester has reported this issue and we have all seen some massive drifting in the videos from tests in the hands of people like Chris Harris... Toyota may have liability concerns that led them to prevent full turnoff though.

I'm not surprised if manufactures setup their cars these days due to liability concerns.

We wouldn't want another Toyota Prius saga where this time round because Toyota/Subaru did not state in the owners manaul and on the sun blinds that this car is a RWD and the chances of crashing is probable if one decides to imitate our drift idols and yet doesnt have the skills to do so.......... hypothetical nonsense.

The Toybaru is good but just driven like imbeciles like myself and the rest of us, we certainly wouldn't want a modern day Ralph Nader popping up and saying that the car is not suitable for the general public coz it looks and sounds and will drift like a drift car.... pardon for the lame ramblings.


Coming back to the TC and VSC experiences, i searched up on youtube for ken gushi's onboard video and yes i do notice on the dash meters the ESP amber light keeps flickering while he's having fun.

Same experiences that i face. However i can't see if the TC lights does turn off.

Bottom line the car can be fun to drive while still having the safety nannies working in the background and slightly intervening at silly angles when we press and hold the TC Off button for the "Faux TC Off and VSC Off".

I'm sure Chris Harris and Ken Gushi's videos speak volumes. But its just nice to have a proper Off button for all when warranted.

[dsgerbc]

What it is exactly that you feel that makes you think it is VSC working? Could it be something benign like EBD changing brake system pressures based on g-forces? In recent Subies pulling the fuse on electronic also meant disabling EBD, which is a pretty bad idea, so I would hold off on pulling the fuse until we have a look at the wiring to figure out which fuse to pull.

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

My hypothesis of the VSC is kicking in (this is with VSC and TC Off mode) is because while trying to initiate a slide (i wont use the word drift as i'm a mere mortal), via a heavy right foot with the steering wheel pointing to where i want to go, the ESP amber lights kicks in once i'm geting a bit of drift angle and countersteering.

And once that happens while my foot is still on full throttle, it feels like the engine management is cutting power (like the ignition is being slightly retarded) and the brakes being applied slightly as the car is getting some nice drift angle and once it reaches a certain treshold it feels slight the speed is ever so slightly being reigned in.

I presume the brakes are working coz u get that placebo feeling of the brakes making pulsating noises (just a bit) when getting some nice slide angles.

Bottom line i need more time in the car to really find the limit as i'm only limited to hooning around a cordoned off car park..

Just sharing my 1st impression experiences...

[Grimlock]

Originally Posted by BabyGodzillaGTi-R

My hypothesis of the VSC is kicking in (this is with VSC and TC Off mode) is because while trying to initiate a slide (i wont use the word drift as i'm a mere mortal), via a heavy right foot with the steering wheel pointing to where i want to go, the ESP amber lights kicks in once i'm geting a bit of drift angle and countersteering.

According to the manual shouldn't the traction control and VSC light already be on when you turn the system off?

Turning off both TRAC and Vehicle stability control (VSC) systems To turn the TRAC and Vehicle stability control (VSC) systems off, press and
hold <TRACTION BUTTON PICTURED> for more than 3 seconds while the vehicle is stopped.

The Traction Control System OFF indicator light and the Vehicle stability control (VSC) off indicator light will come on.

Press the button again to turn the systems back on.

[Metallic BRZ]

Were you completely stopped when turning them both off?

Only asking becuase my Tacoma had a similar problem. (I special ordered by base truck with the Auto LSD which meant it came with VSC and TC). Unless I was fully stopped and the revs were down holding the button did nothing. A few times the lights would go on (to indicate it was off) but then the lights would go away a couple seconds later and it would be on.

However, I never had the problem when fully stopped with the revs at idle.

I suspect its basically the same logic - VSC/TC for most Toyota's - which is the system I thought used in the BRZ.

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Originally Posted by Metallic BRZ

Were you completely stopped when turning them both off?

Only asking becuase my Tacoma had a similar problem. (I special ordered by base truck with the Auto LSD which meant it came with VSC and TC). Unless I was fully stopped and the revs were down holding the button did nothing. A few times the lights would go on (to indicate it was off) but then the lights would go away a couple seconds later and it would be on.

However, I never had the problem when fully stopped with the revs at idle.

I suspect its basically the same logic - VSC/TC for most Toyota's - which is the system I thought used in the BRZ.

Yes thats what i did. When at idle, car stationary, press and hold the TC until the TC and VSC off lights came out.

The issue at hand is that the TC reverts back to normal when we tried to get it sideways however the VSC lights is still there.
The thing is the car will still allow it to slide but it feels that the electronic stability programme still intervenes ever so slightly and the VSC amber ligths still flickers anyway. It goes sideways but it will correct the slide out easily while doing figure of 8s/ donuts as it doesnt have the power to begin with plus it is further aggrivated that the VSC feels it's still "assisting/ intervening"....


Anyway can't wait for other's feedback when they get their cars.

[kablammo]

If VSC and TC can not be turned completely off I would absolutely consider this a deal breaker.

[bestwheelbase]

Welcome BabyGodzilla!

With some of the glorious power-slide videos we've seen, it would be surprising to find that stability control cannot be disabled. Journos get early access to cars, but it is far-fetched to think the "handlers" at the early Fuji press days were pulling fuses from the cars. When you had trouble disengaging the systems, did the Subaru reps at the event have any explanation to offer?

PS Your username made me think of this little guy...

[OrbitalEllipses]

I'm more interested in the Brake-Override technology that I keep hearing about. Defeating that will be important.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I'm more interested in the Brake-Override technology that I keep hearing about. Defeating that will be important.

What is that, exactly?

This whole time I've been under the impression the "nannies" could be disabled for proper shenanigans.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

What is that, exactly?

This whole time I've been under the impression the "nannies" could be disabled for proper shenanigans.

Exactly what it sounds like.

Originally Posted by http://brzpost.com/threads/brake-override-system-for-those-that-left-foot-brake.166/

Brake Override System

The Brake Override System (BOS) is an active safety feature first introduced on all 2012 Impreza 2.0i models and will be standard equipment on all 2013 Subaru vehicles, starting with the new 2013 BRZ. It’s important that you understand how the Brake Override System works so you can accurately explain its operation and benefits to your customers. The Brake Override System (BOS) can help prevent claims of unintentional vehicle acceleration because it monitors the simultaneous application of both the brake pedal and accelerator pedal by the driver while the vehicle is moving. Here are key features of the system.

Brake Override System Features

•System Activation Delay – The system has built-in activation delay which senses the accidental depression of both the brake pedal and accelerator pedal. This activation delay allows the driver to realize that both pedals are being depressed simultaneously. If both the brake and accelerator pedals are immediately released by the driver, the system will not activate. If both pedals are not immediately released, the system will activate
•System Activation – The system activates when BOTH the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are applied. On initial activation, the system is time delayed until the ABS control unit raises the brake fluid pressure to a specific level to control vehicle movement. Engine operation is reduced by closing the throttle plate. Physical application of the accelerator pedal by the driver has virtually little or no effect on engine or vehicle speed.
•Dual Stage Activation◦Light brake pedal application: The system will take longer to activate when both the accelerator pedal is depressed and the brake pedal is lightly depressed. This delayed activation allows the driver to apply the brake briefly and still maintain accelerator pedal control.
◦Heavy brake pedal application: The system will immediately activate when both the accelerator and brake pedal are depressed.

•Deactivation – The system deactivates when it senses only INDIVIDUAL operation of the brake pedal or the accelerator pedal. During deactivation, brake fluid pressure is released and the throttle plate is momentarily activated to maintain drivetrain pressure. The system positions the throttle plate above idle to prevent the engine from stalling while the system reduces the accelerator operation to prevent the vehicle from lunging forward. The system then synchronizes the linear operation of the throttle plate and accelerator pedal for normal vehicle operation.

So perhaps light left foot braking won't trigger the system, but any appreciably heavy application of both pedals will activate the system.

[eight_six]

yeah the brake override system sounds like what nissan has in place on the 350/370z'z.

it doesnt look like it should interfere.. however it is pretty disappointing that it cant be disabled.

more importantly.. its not the first time Toyota has used tc/vsc systems that arent completely able to be turned off. the is250/350 uses a similar system. you have to some combination street fighter type combo of things to get it completely disabled.

that.. is a much bigger deal. and what i would consider a deal breaker from me. i come from an s2000.. the last thing i want is traction/vsc/braking system nannies that i cant disable

[Kunzite]

I'm not sure they are allowed to make it able to be turned off, as a side effect of the accelerator scandal.
Of course, when driving a manual and having confidence your car won't suddenly get berserk, you'll be saying "WTH, I don't want it, it's in the way!". And you'll be right.

[kablammo]

I emailed the local Scion dealer and he states:

"Since 2010, all Toyota’s and Scion’s have the ability to turn VSC and TRAC off by holding the VSC button for at least 5 seconds until TRAC off and VSC off illuminate on the instrumentation panel."

Hoping this is the truth.