Engine failure - 38,000 miles

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by Monogram

It's all conjecture ... except for the fact that nobody has posted a single engine failure on a completely stock / undamaged vehicle.

I've seen exactly one unsold dealer inventory, automatic transmission BRZ with about 80 miles develop a rod knock. No idea what the cause was. Subaru took the old short block back for inspection.

With regards to the other thread with valve to piston contact, I've seen an FB engine (from a Crosstrek Hybrid) with a rocker arm come out of position. It seems to be a very rare failure. In such a situation it's possible the loose rocker could get caught between the cam and the valve spring retainer, allowing the valve keepers to pop out and drop the valve into the cylinder.

[RavnFRS]

2 engines failed now. Both threw a rod. First went at 15000 miles on highway at crusing speed. Got engine rebuilt under warranty, had it one week, drove it soft and boom second engine went in seconf gear at 30. They think it threw a rod. So damn annoyed with it all.

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by Davey

Did they ever give you any more detail on what specifically failed? I read the whole thread, maybe I missed it. Curious if it was a main bearing or what.

All they told me was they found metal in the oil pan and got approved for a short block from Toyota. I asked for details of their teardown and he said they didn't fully teardown. Just ordered the replacement engine with no further diagnosis.


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[samisons]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

All they told me was they found metal in the oil pan and got approved for a short block from Toyota. I asked for details of their teardown and he said they didn't fully teardown. Just ordered the replacement engine with no further diagnosis.


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They usually have the mechanic show you what happened if you ask. I was able to see my complete tear down and was even offered a chance to put on parts that i wanted as it was tore down. IE, Sti engine mounts ect. he even offered to do the clutch if i wanted to upgrade but i declined since it only had 4000 miles and I don't plan on doing any power mods for a while.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by samisons

They usually have the mechanic show you what happened if you ask. I was able to see my complete tear down and was even offered a chance to put on parts that i wanted as it was tore down. IE, Sti engine mounts ect. he even offered to do the clutch if i wanted to upgrade but i declined since it only had 4000 miles and I don't plan on doing any power mods for a while.

If the engine is making a noise and there's a bunch of metal in the oil pan, they literally might not tear down anything any further at the manufacturer's request. Clutch, mounts, etc. are all external to the engine itself.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by RavnFRS

2 engines failed now. Both threw a rod. First went at 15000 miles on highway at crusing speed. Got engine rebuilt under warranty, had it one week, drove it soft and boom second engine went in seconf gear at 30. They think it threw a rod. So damn annoyed with it all.

What was replaced after the first failure?

When two fail like that back-to-back it is usually because they put whatever the problem was right back on the new engine.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by Monogram

In this example, both exhaust valves were gone, intakes are intact, and the head is beat to crap. The piston contacted the exhaust valves on the exhaust stroke at high rpm ... at least that is my opinion.

That is entirely possible. It's also possible he lost one or more rocker arms. In fact, with this valvetrain design, if you float a valve, the rockers will likely come loose since they aren't attatched to anything. Subaru has created an interesting failure mode here, if one that is uncommon in normal usage.

I definitely agree with you that the number of failures is blown out of proportion because of the nature of internet forums. If you read Porsche forums, for example, you would think engine failure is almost guaranteed.

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

I definitely agree with you that the number of failures is blown out of proportion because of the nature of internet forums. If you read Porsche forums, for example, you would think engine failure is almost guaranteed.

I'm not really sure if folks are blowing the perceived failure rate out of proportion, but even having studied different ways to interpret various probability distributions, I can honestly say that your perspective skews a bit when it actually happens to you. You begin to doubt the design decisions made with the car, the quality of the parts, the mechanics who work on your car, etc. It's hard to keep your perspective, and if you just keep having problems or engine failures after that; any statistics about it become irrelevant to you.


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[Mr 286]

Update from dealer: called today to let me know they had to pull the motor back out again. They heard some tapping, so they're going to check the clearances on the valve shims again. Warning lights keep coming up. No ETA basically because they're short-handed. Just one of those "done when it's done" kind of situations which I can understand to a degree.

I told them that in my experience, when there is metal in the pan, there is metal in the system, and we should have went with a long block. He said we were "lucky there was no damage to the top end." Apparently, in cases like this many customers don't bring their car in until it completely seizes or blows up. I guess this is what I get for not driving it to the point of utter destruction before towing it in. I still want to see some pics of the cam journals to see if there is any scoring, but I'm sure they didn't take any.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

Update from dealer: called today to let me know they had to pull the motor back out again. They heard some tapping, so they're going to check the clearances on the valve shims again. Warning lights keep coming up. No ETA basically because they're short-handed. Just one of those "done when it's done" kind of situations which I can understand to a degree.

I told them that in my experience, when there is metal in the pan, there is metal in the system, and we should have went with a long block. He said we were "lucky there was no damage to the top end." Apparently, in cases like this many customers don't bring their car in until it completely seizes or blows up. I guess this is what I get for not driving it to the point of utter destruction before towing it in. I still want to see some pics of the cam journals to see if there is any scoring, but I'm sure they didn't take any.

This process is a fairly major one. Are the in-shop techs doing it, or did they bring in a regional Master Tech to work on this? If they didn't bring the regional guy in, I would be very suspicious of the final product.

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

This process is a fairly major one. Are the in-shop techs doing it, or did they bring in a regional Master Tech to work on this? If they didn't bring the regional guy in, I would be very suspicious of the final product.

They mentioned bringing in a "Toyota Engineer" because of all the trouble they're having but if it was really an engineer then I think by "bringing in" they meant "consulted on the phone with."

Oh yeah, I'm already very suspicious of the final product.

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

This process is a fairly major one. Are the in-shop techs doing it, or did they bring in a regional Master Tech to work on this? If they didn't bring the regional guy in, I would be very suspicious of the final product.

I've never checked/done valve clearance on a boxer motor, only inline 4's. But that was as easy peasy. Just take the valve cover off and grab your feeler gauge and a screwdriver and get adjusting if needed. I wouldn't be worried, a "master tech" isn't called for in regards to a valve clearance check.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

I've never checked/done valve clearance on a boxer motor, only inline 4's. But that was as easy peasy. Just take the valve cover off and grab your feeler gauge and a screwdriver and get adjusting if needed. I wouldn't be worried, a "master tech" isn't called for in regards to a valve clearance check.

I was referring to the OPs concern that there may be more metal floating around the long block.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

I've never checked/done valve clearance on a boxer motor, only inline 4's. But that was as easy peasy. Just take the valve cover off and grab your feeler gauge and a screwdriver and get adjusting if needed. I wouldn't be worried, a "master tech" isn't called for in regards to a valve clearance check.

While checking valve clearance is only a bit more difficult (with the engine in the car), the engine must be removed to adjust clearance. This engine does not use screw adjusters, it uses select thickness valve stem caps. So basically you have to measure clearance, do math, then (most likely) order parts as a full set of caps is several thousand dollars. Parts managers generally don't like to have that kind of excess inventory laying around.

Once parts come in you must remove the engine and put it on a stand. Next remove the timing cover and the timing chains. This will allow you to remove the cam carriers, one head at a time as it must be facing up so the rockers don't fall off and get mixed up. Swap out the caps, reassemble, and recheck.

I'm sure you can tell I've done it a few times.

It's not particularly difficult, but it is time consuming.