Subaru USA's New 2015 BRZ Series Blue with STI Parts has a Placebo Effect….

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by BRZ_Lawyer

However, subaru needs to include some type of flagship BRZ model, that boasts an increase in power to be sold in limited quantities. If they do not then their competition (hyundai genesis coupe, miata etc.) will take advantage of subaru's lack of action, and make a competing model with similar handling in addition to increase of power.

A "lack of action" (which in this context is usually lack of engine updates) isn't what sends people to their direct competitors.


Buyers who opted for the Genesis Coupe over the 86 because of power/acceleration likely weren't too interested in handling feel to begin with (or at least not a high level of it), so they're already two very distinct types of buyers, despite the similarities of what they're cross-shopping. If the 86 had a turbo, then perhaps some of them may have been swayed, but they would just view the handling as a bonus. I post on the GenesisCoupe.com forums, and the comparison threads between them are generally about how they don't want to get beaten at the stoplight by an Accord V-6, and rarely anything about handling (or at least the way adults talk about it). And they're not magically going to make the Hyundai have "similar handling," at least not with its current platform.


Buyers who opted for the Miata obviously aren't getting more power, so that's not really an issue there. Perhaps their buyers are more appreciative of the Miata's history, or maybe they wanted a convertible, or maybe they didn't want something that a lot of kids are driving these days.


So yeah, more power might have clawed some of the sales away from those two cars, but it's not as if "only" 200 hp is keeping the 86 from being successful. Perhaps it's not near its full potential (which is probably the main complaint), but there isn't much of a reason for Toyota or Subaru to do it from a financial perspective, especially when the 86 the way it is currently generates money. I don't see why we won't get a turbocharged BRZ at some point, but Subaru will probably still want the WRX to enjoy its run at least for a few years before having a BRZ that threatens it with its own engine, from a performance standpoint, especially when the WRX (and STI) have made huge leaps in terms of handling, compared to the understeering pigs they had been for the past decade.


That being said, one thing that would accelerate a turbocharged BRZ would be if the WRX ends up being a failure in terms of sales, because they'll likely have a bunch of motors that will need homes. Remember, that's basically how we got the 1999-2000 Honda Civic Si, which ended up being a pretty fun car, far more so than even its immediate successor. They didn't want to bring a more performance-oriented Civic to the US at the time (since they didn't want it to compete with the Integra stateside), but the Del Sol lineup sold poorly here... so with extra B16A motors sitting around (since it's harder to scale back on producing engines than bodies, since bodies are typically made in-house while individual engine parts are often times ordered from various manufacturers, and they can't just send the stuff back), they figured why not put it in a Civic and just sell it for a couple of years.

Originally Posted by BRZ_Lawyer

I do not want the same thing to happen to the BRZ/FR-S as what happened to mitsubishi starion/dodge conquest when the 240z took over the market

The 240Z was first produced in the late 1960s, and the Starion wasn't produced until the early 1980s. The Nissan enjoyed a comfortable head-start called the '70s. And even by the time the Starion came out, the 280ZX was out and the actual 240Z was long out of production and had been succeeded a few times.

[krayzie]

The 86/BRZ formula is more or less based on the initial LightWeight Sports Miata idea in terms of design (cheap fun to drive sports car) and marketing (readily customizable, cult car clubs and sporting events, etc), so as to not fall into the trap of the Devil's Cycle (look at what happened to the Z car, progressively got chunkier and more power and luxurious hence steeper price, lost its original concept overtime).

I for one am glad there is no plan for a factory turbo version of the car. You either get the idea of the car or you don't.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Swift

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THE END.


PS- did you get rid of your shit orange peel paint jobs yet too?


/still waiting

You mean like every new car under $100K?

[Michael Blue]

Originally Posted by Swift

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THE END.


PS- did you get rid of your shit orange peel paint jobs yet too?


/still waiting

The hate for Subaru in general and the 86ers in particular, here an elsewhere, is pretty surprising, and a bit disgusting.
If you don't like or want this car, terrific, go post in a forum where they talk about cars you do like.
But coming here and complaining about not being able to roll on a Mustang (or Accord, lol) or orange peel paint simply shows you're here for one purpose, to troll.

No car made would be 100% to everyone's liking from the factory.
Not the 86ers, not the Mustang people keep comparing them to, not the $1M+ Bugatti Veyron, which costs Bugatti more than $3M each to produce.
Five "car guys" stand next to each one, you'll get five different opinions on what could be done to make it better, prettier, more personalized, faster, whatever.

Constructive criticism is important, and who knows, maybe the manufacturer will see some of what we post.
They should pay attention to large groups of buyers and potential buyers like this, we're the easiest to assemble and cheapest focus groups they'll ever encounter.
But just trolling and complaining in a rude way is not going to have the desired effect.

Are there areas where these cars could improve? Sure, like all cars.
But responses like the one I quoted (and sorry for singling you out, you're not alone by any means) just aren't helping anyone.

For my $.02, I don't want a turbo in this car. Keep the Limited as it is, add a model with the Innovate Stage II Complete, stock.
(Before I get crucified for that, keep in mind, MOST positive displacement supercharger packages are developed by the aftermarket, the OE only ensures their internals are up to the task.)

And, I'm not crazy about the blue leather in the Series.Blue. But I LOVE the stitching, so there you have it.

Anyways, that post and the overall diminishing tone in this thread were just getting to me. Carry on...

[gramicci101]

Besides, marginal paint quality and interior rattles are what makes a Subaru a Subaru. The commercial says it's love, but they're wrong. I've had those issues on all three of mine, and I'll probably have them on the next one as well.

I actually bought my car over getting another WRX because it wasn't turboed. I need my car to last for a while, and forced induction doesn't really lend itself to that. I'll put a little work into optimizing the NA motor, but I wouldn't have bought a turbo version. For the Blue edition, it would have looked wonderful if they had stuck with black leather and gone with just blue stitching, but as it is there's too much blue inside.

[Speed2th]

I would only buy it if it does not has marked up price. If it is marked up, I don't think it is worth it.

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by Michael Blue

The hate for Subaru in general and the 86ers in particular, here an elsewhere, is pretty surprising, and a bit disgusting.
If you don't like or want this car, terrific, go post in a forum where they talk about cars you do like.
But coming here and complaining about not being able to roll on a Mustang (or Accord, lol) or orange peel paint simply shows you're here for one purpose, to troll.

We do get the purpose of this car. We still think it would be much more fun with a turbo. We aren't trolling, and you dismissing everyone who doesn't agree with your BRZ worldview is childish BS.

Nobody is saying they need to blow the motors of all BRZ, but for christ's sake, make it an option or at least offer a higher output NA motor.

And everyone (not just you) dismissing people who want a turbo or more power as trolls needs to shut the hell up. We understand you got the car you want. It's a driver's car. You're a motoring purist who enjoys weekend drives through the rolling hills with a white sweater tied around the neck of your pink polo shirt (IT'S SALMON, DAMMIT!). We get that you're perfectly content with a decently powered car that handles like a go-kart with your nose in the air as everyone else passes you.

I want to drive balls to the wall and do better than a 6.4 second 0-60 while twisting my nipples and blasting screaming thrash metal guitar solos. Especially because I am forced to spend most of my time on the freeway in this car and I need some straight line excitement. Diff'rent strokes.

[Michael Blue]

Wow, did you ever miss the entire point of my post.
...And the sweeping review of my personality couldn't be more off, but, thanks?

I fully intend to put an Innovate SC kit on my BRZ.
For me, the car does need more power/torque, esp down low.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to whine or swear in every thread I can about how Subaru screwed us, how the car is a POS, or whatever.
I wasn't "dismissing" anyone, just their (your) approach.

Wow...

[tahdizzle]

I personally don't feel the car needs any more power, BUT I want more power.

Just haven't decided how much and how I want to do it.

The car is nicely balanced and uses what it has efficiently. I can fullly understand how people would be content with a stock twin.

Tuning and modifying is not a beast of necessity.

I don't NEED to modify my car. I want to.

[ChilOut]

I think its a neat idea for the hard core BRZ enthusiast, but I dont see a whole lot of these selling. While we all want more options for our cars, Subaru can only add so much until the price starts to become equal to the WRX

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by ChilOut

I think its a neat idea for the hard core BRZ enthusiast, but I dont see a whole lot of these selling. While we all want more options for our cars, Subaru can only add so much until the price starts to become equal to the WRX

The BRZ is already more than a WRX :P

[Jonsey]

Originally Posted by ChilOut

I think its a neat idea for the hard core BRZ enthusiast, but I dont see a whole lot of these selling. While we all want more options for our cars, Subaru can only add so much until the price starts to become equal to the WRX

I for one would be more than happy to pay a WRX STI price for a BRZ with comparable power. The price for this car is a lower priority to me than a number of other factors. I would rather pay 40k for a "real" STI BRZ because it looks a hell of a lot better than a WRX, handles better, is rear wheel drive and is a coupe. I wish they would build a more expensive version of this car that could hang with a Porsche Cayman on the track, I would be all over that. The appeal to me of this car is the looks and the lightweight/handling, and not the price and the power in its current form. I am glad its cheap, who doesn't love keeping money in their pockets, but I would much rather have what I actually want out of this car with a warranty and less money in my pocket.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

The BRZ is already more than a WRX :P

The base WRX is ~$700 more than a Premium BRZ. A WRX Premium is $2900 more than a BRZ Premium.

[Hachiroku14]

I stopped looking at the rest as soon as I saw the painted calipers.