Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by robwbright

I meant to say Stage 1 tune without ESC installed. ESC tune with ESC installed but not armed feels slower to me than Stage 1 tune.

Maybe I'm wrong but the car feels flat with no significant increase in hp/tq around 4000-500 rpm. As I recall... stock, the car felt almost like a Prelude VTEC at 5000 rpm... and with Stage 1 tune (without ESC installed), that feeling of a little bit of boost happened closer to 4000 rpm.

I didn't feel much of either with the ESC installed but unarmed. Now that wouldn't necessarily mean it was less powerful overall, but the tune feels more "flat" if that makes any sense.

I'm open to correction/clarification.

I don't recall seeing a clear/detailed explanation of how drag reduction works and how the ESC kit turns it off. If someone would like to chime in, I'd appreciate it.

Would the fact that drag reduction is off be the reason for the apparently increased gas mileage?

Arm 'OFF' = a blower with the belt removed
Arm 'ON' = a blower with the belt installed

The arm switch is just a manual means of turning off the system.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by robwbright

Yea, but the ESC tune is not very good with the ESC unarmed. The Stage 1 OFT tune pulled pretty good from 4000 rpm on. It's nothing like that with the ESC tune and ESC unarmed. It doesn't even feel to me as good as I remember stock was.

Originally Posted by DC2R

Wouldn't it be slower even with stage one tune since turning esc off turns off drag reduction?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

The restriction only results in a few hp penalty - at the very top end. Not enough to notice. Less of an effect then carrying a passenger.

Originally Posted by robwbright

I meant to say Stage 1 tune without ESC installed. ESC tune with ESC installed but not armed feels slower to me than Stage 1 tune.

Maybe I'm wrong but the car feels flat with no significant increase in hp/tq around 4000-500 rpm. As I recall... stock, the car felt almost like a Prelude VTEC at 5000 rpm... and with Stage 1 tune (without ESC installed), that feeling of a little bit of boost happened closer to 4000 rpm.

I didn't feel much of either with the ESC installed but unarmed. Now that wouldn't necessarily mean it was less powerful overall, but the tune feels more "flat" if that makes any sense.

I'm open to correction/clarification.

I don't recall seeing a clear/detailed explanation of how drag reduction works and how the ESC kit turns it off. If someone would like to chime in, I'd appreciate it.

Would the fact that drag reduction is off be the reason for the apparently increased gas mileage?

Originally Posted by robwbright

@fenton, could you please explain the last sentence?

Without the esc armed drag reduction will not work and you will be about 10 to 12 HP less at the top end. This is completely normal because the SC isn't Turning and only free wheeling and is a restriction.

You always want to have the system armed and use drag reduction. When you have the Dr hose connected anytime a reduction of performance is detected (vacuum between SC and throttle body) the SC will pulse to equalize the pressure.

Drag reduction typically pulses .5 to 1 psi.

As far as the mpg increase if you drove around never engaging the system yes you will get better mileage. Less air less fuel.

The way I use drag reduction is go to 75 percent throttle or so. This way there is a restriction in the system and Dr pulses creating a increase in performance over stock.

Moral of the story never drive without the system armed for maximum pleasure.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by fenton

Without the esc armed drag reduction will not work and you will be about 10 to 12 HP less at the top end. This is completely normal because the SC isn't Turning and only free wheeling and is a restriction.

You always want to have the system armed and use drag reduction. When you have the Dr hose connected anytime a reduction of performance is detected (vacuum between SC and throttle body) the SC will pulse to equalize the pressure.

Drag reduction typically pulses .5 to 1 psi.

As far as the mpg increase if you drove around never engaging the system yes you will get better mileage. Less air less fuel.

The way I use drag reduction is go to 75 percent throttle or so. This way there is a restriction in the system and Dr pulses creating a increase in performance over stock.

Moral of the story never drive without the system armed for maximum pleasure.

Thanks!

[robwbright]

BTW, I just received the new Car & Driver. Cover story is "30 cars under 30k".

FRS/BRZ is #3 - behind their first drive in the 2015 Mustang and the Miata. However, there's a little "How to build your $30,000 FRS/BRZ" which contains this:

"In our road test... we concluded that "the BRZ's balance of attributes needs no tweaking." So if you're going to mod the car, it's best to proceed with caution."

They then recommend:

Base Price $25,455 ($935 less than BRZ)
Michelin PSS tires $664
JDL EL Headers $1099
SPC front camber bolts $42
Front end alignment -1.7 degrees $150
Greddy Evo3 cat back $860
Injen intake $287
Tune and flash $800
Kartboy short shifter $255
Total $29,612

I think I'm going to email them and tell them they should have added the ESC instead of the headers and cat back...

[WNDSRFR]

I just gained a new appreciation for the power of the ESC. I had to go to Oklahoma City for the past few days on business. I drove a rental Ford Focus. It was sooo slow it reminded me of the stock FR-S.
It was a real thrill to get back into the good old Toyobaru.
And the sound of the OFH in the airport parking garage was just orgasmic.

[Luckrider]

Originally Posted by robwbright

BTW, I just received the new Car & Driver. Cover story is "30 cars under 30k".

FRS/BRZ is #3 - behind their first drive in the 2015 Mustang and the Miata. However, there's a little "How to build your $30,000 FRS/BRZ" which contains this:

"In our road test... we concluded that "the BRZ's balance of attributes needs no tweaking." So if you're going to mod the car, it's best to proceed with caution."

They then recommend:

Base Price $25,455 ($935 less than BRZ)
Michelin PSS tires $664
JDL EL Headers $1099
SPC front camber bolts $42
Front end alignment -1.7 degrees $150
Greddy Evo3 cat back $860
Injen intake $287
Tune and flash $800
Kartboy short shifter $255
Total $29,612

I think I'm going to email them and tell them they should have added the ESC instead of the headers and cat back...

Nope, they should make the follow switches.

OFH instead of JDL. Save $500.
ESC in place of intake, shifter, and catback.
OFT instead of ECUTekflash. That save about $2k which gets you great sound, no dip, and quality parts, and a system designed to work well together. The savings is enough to buy the ESC and dual dump.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by Luckrider

Nope, they should make the follow switches.

OFH instead of JDL. Save $500.
ESC in place of intake, shifter, and catback.
OFT instead of ECUTekflash. That save about $2k which gets you great sound, no dip, and quality parts, and a system designed to work well together. The savings is enough to buy the ESC and dual dump.

Well, I sent them an email with information, dyno charts, links and your recommendations. Told them they ought to consider testing it...

[WNDSRFR]

If this was tested by a magazine then Rob would be so overwhelmed with orders that he would have to open a dedicated manufacturing plant to mass produce the thing. Which would be a good thing.


But if you decide to outsource assembly, Please consider building it in the good old U.S.A. That's where most of your customers will be. And no problems with customs.

[Luckrider]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

If this was tested by a magazine then Rob would be so overwhelmed with orders that he would have to open a dedicated manufacturing plant to mass produce the thing. Which would be a good thing.


But if you decide to outsource assembly, Please consider building it in the good old U.S.A. That's where most of your customers will be. And no problems with customs.

And most likely cheaper taxes than Canada. NY offers assistance to startups building in the state and provides tax relief for 5 years.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by TM

When I was on stock headers, the aggressive VVT change was still very noticeable. The supercharger is not noticeably loud. Maybe a light whirling sound on top of the engine noise, which sounds rather nice.

After I got UEL headers, both of those two are not noticeable anymore.

I agree with everything you've said.
And I would like to add that if you go WOT and shift at 5,500 RPM, it almost sounds like a blow off valve going off. Between the VVT raspiness and the BOV sound the car can sound pretty RACECAR. Not to mention the exhaust note on top of that.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by Luckrider

And most likely cheaper taxes than Canada. NY offers assistance to startups building in the state and provides tax relief for 5 years.

Florida will beat your incentives. Also we have cheaper labor and better weather.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Florida will beat your incentives. Also we have cheaper labor and better weather.

I will be experiencing that weather in early October... might even visit Cocoa.

[robwbright]

Just FYI, here's what I sent Car and Driver. Maybe it was overkill, but since I felt they'd need some convincing, I gave them plenty of info:

-------------------

"Hello Editors of this fine magazine!

I just received the July 2014 issue with the "30 Cars under 30k" story. I was pleased to see my beloved BRZ in another of your "best of" lists.

However, while your list of proposed mods includes some fine, quality products, there's a recently released mod that you probably are not aware of... IMO, bang for the buck, it's a whole lot better choice than the JDL headers and Greddy cat back - and the cost is almost identical. Ten days ago, I installed this mod in less than three hours and, frankly, it's incredible for the price (about $1800 to $2000 depending on the set up).

It's the Phantom Full Throttle Electric Supercharger (ESC)

Before you shut me off with "It's already been proven that electric superchargers don't work...", please note that this is NOT ANYTHING like the $100 electric superchargers on ebay.

The ESC makes around 5 psi of boost at low rpm tapering to around 1 psi at 7000 rpm. Depending on the particular battery pack you choose, there are dyno proven gains of +70 ft/lb of torque at 4000+/- rpm and peak HP is up from about 170 at the rear wheels to 220+ at the rear wheels (see attached dyno chart).

It the real world, I've seen my 40-60 time drop from 2.92 seconds stock to 2.42 seconds with the ESC. I've been unable to improve the 0-60 time more than a couple tenths because of excessive wheelspin on the stock tires - basically, I haven't figured out the best way to launch, yet. One fellow with the system is claiming a 0-60 of 5.8 seconds. Another has a drag strip time slip with a 14.02 quarter.

The kit uses a switch under the throttle pedal to turn on only at WOT and supplies about 45+/- seconds of continuous boost (meaning it's really hard to run out of boost in street use). It recharges at an 8:1 rate when you're not at WOT (and an auxiliary charger will be released soon to cut the recharge rate to 4:1). Gas mileage when cruising and ESC is not engaged is improved by 3-5 mpg - last night I drove 25 miles on 4 lane road at an average speed of around 62 mph with no stops. A pic of my average mileage is attached (40.3 mpg). Of course, my overall average mileage has dropped substantially because I can't stop going WOT.

Incidentally, the kit has been or is being tested on the following cars: Miata, Jetta, VW MK IV 2.0, Chevy Silverado 4.3, VW MK IV VR6, BMW 318i E36 and Lotus Elise - all with significant gains - particularly in the lower rpm range. Kinks have been worked out and the gains are extending further into the high rpm range.

Main site:

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/

BRZ/FRS kit:

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/...ubaru-brz.html

Other dynos:

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/dyno-results.html

And below is a link to a 260+ page development thread on one of the BRZ/FRS forums - that's how I found out about it. 1st page posts are info and updates. Then the thread is in chronological order... and you see a LOT of skepticism early in the thread (indeed, I, too, was initially skeptical). The dynos and the 25 people currently using the system resolve all skepticism:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719

Here's the owner's thread with a list of the forum members who currently have the ESC installed:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66862

And finally, I've attached the Miata dyno, which is on the Miata forum, here:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...537959&page=12

I think this product is something you guys should consider testing...

The tune I am using is included free with the Open Flash Tablet, which is a great product and costs $500 here:

http://openflashtablet.com/products/OFT/index.html

Finally, another poster on the forum pointed this out about your proposed mods:

--------------------------------------

"Nope, Car and Driver should make the follow switches.

Open Flash Header instead of JDL. Save $500.
ESC in place of intake, shifter, and catback.
Open Flash Tablet instead of ECUTek flash.

That will save about $2k which gets you great sound, no torque dip, and quality parts, and a system designed to work well together. The savings is enough to buy the ESC and dual dump battery pack."

--------------------------------------

I concur with him... You'd have an FRS that cost about $28,000... and it would have around 220+/- rear wheel hp and around 200 ft/lb of torque at 4000 rpm.

Check it out!"

[SuperKazRacing]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Florida will beat your incentives. Also we have cheaper labor and better weather.

Nevada "Las Vegas" I Believe is even Better . At Least all the new DRONE Companies starting up here think so ...............................