Aftermarket Exhausts?

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

My order of preference is craftmanship, then sound, then weight, then looks. And I'll never buy a burnt tip Ti exhaust.

+1. A pair of double-walled tips are all I need for looks. Titanium might be out of my budget but I'd prefer it. Whatever it's made from, I don't want to see rust!!!

It looks like the Fujitsubo unit adds ~3whp and ~2lb/ft while saving ~7lbs and costs (at a direct conversion) $1,635. I'd like to see a bit more of an improvement than that for the money, but the STi unit supposedly doesn't change output at all, so I'm wondering just how efficient the stock system is.

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

+1. A pair of double-walled tips are all I need for looks. Titanium might be out of my budget but I'd prefer it. Whatever it's made from, I don't want to see rust!!!

It looks like the Fujitsubo unit adds ~3whp and ~2lb/ft while saving ~7lbs and costs (at a direct conversion) $1,635. I'd like to see a bit more of an improvement than that for the money, but the STi unit supposedly doesn't change output at all, so I'm wondering just how efficient the stock system is.

That price is way too high, I'm not paying more than $1,200 for an exhaust.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

As soon as we have a car available somewhere in Europe we'll start developing a full exhaust.

We use highest grade Aisi 304 as it's he best compromise in cost, reliability and weight.
On very stressed components (like Porsche turbo manifolds) we use 310S.
We also have a few Inconel components but the cost is so high (50 times 304 SS!!) that nobody is going to buy a full system made in 1mm thick inconel, even if it's 20kg less and it will last forever...
Titanium is out of discussion as it breaks down at high temperatures.

Anyway what we're going to do as soon as we have the car is:

Equel lenght, stepped design headers. The BRZ already has equal lenght primary pipes, that's the reason why it doesn't sound like a Subaru. We could also think to make two different sets of headers, one for power (equel lenght) and one for burble sound (unequal lenght)...but the last one will lose power.
The stepped design, for people who is not familiar with this term, has primary pipes that start at the size of the exhaust ports and then get bigger. This decreases the backpressure without introducing a step from the exhaust port to the pipes, and keeps gas velocity high.
We use this design for cars that have wide powerbands: M3 E46, 997 GT3, Ferrari F430, Nissan 370Z, Lotus Elise/Exige Supercharged etc.

Single, 1st grade HJS cat (cpsi to be defined). This will go under the car, downstream...the after-cat O2 sensor wire will need an extension if it's after the 1st cat close to the engine in stock configuration.

Centre pipe (with or without a silencer)

Rear exhaust: this will be very interesting stuff. I'd like to make it with a valve system, not sure if it's going to be a pierburg or an electrically actuated valve.

Anyway the whole system will be developed based on dyno testing with backpressure measurements for the best performance possibile.

A few choices will be offered for the endpipes: normal chrome, lipped and not lipped, and black chromed, both matt and polished. Maybe even a satin silver finish.

If I find a car before Summer the system will be on sale in October.

The price won't be as cheap as some made in taiwan products but not as expensive as some JDM stuff.

Based on price of existing parts something like € 4000 (list price) for the full sytem (headers, cat, centre pipe, rear exhaust, tips) without the valve system.
Close to € 5000 for the valved system.

We could offer a special deal for ft86club members with a 20-30% off.

I know it still expensive...maybe we could semplifiy some of the components, but no less than € 3000.

[sirus]

Originally Posted by Gardus

The price won't be as cheap as some made in taiwan products but not as expensive as some JDM stuff.

Based on price of existing parts something like € 4000 (list price) for the full sytem (headers, cat, centre pipe, rear exhaust, tips) without the valve system.
Close to € 5000 for the valved system.

I'm sorry, but how is JDM stuff more expensive? Looking at the lowest price of €4000, that is well over $8000AUS which is similar to the US dollar making it 1/3 the price of a US car and probably 1/4 the price of the car in Aust... The HKS kit seems to cost around $1300AUS (minus headers).

Sorry I'm not trying to be a d¡ck but what you quote is quite expensive for the average Joe and probably 99% of people here..

[Gardus@Supersprint]

I'm talking about the FULL exhaust with headers!
The HJS kit is made in Taiwan, plus is a catback if not only an axleback. It doesn't have headers or a sports cat, which are the most expensive components.
A simple catback will cost around €1000 -1200 (list price), tested on the dyno to get as much as you can (which is not much on a NA 2.0l), with TUV approval (and I know you don't need it, but we work a lot with markets which require the homologation).

[chulooz]

Id throw down for a quality Ti header-back at ~10lbs. I expect a relatively large Ti market.

Im more excited to see what header designs are going to be developed with this car. There is going to be a lot of 'out of the box(er)' designs and concepts from all of the new-to-boxer folks involved.

[just86]

You people make me laugh, anything over 1000 for exhaust is a joke, this ain't no ferrari

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by just86

You people make me laugh, anything over 1000 for exhaust is a joke, this ain't no ferrari

Over $1,000? Im trying to keep it under $3,000.

This aint a Civic either. Quality parts cost bucks, especially Ti.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

I wouldn't go for Titanium on the headers, do you have any idea what happens to Ti at 600+ °C?

Realibility is more important than weight in that department, also it's all weight under the engine, it's so low that it doesn't affect much the whole dynamics of the car.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

If we talk about catback system I may agree (if there's no valve or special finish for the endtips), but headers and cats cost if they are not cheap chinese knock off, the R&D costs good money.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Gardus

I wouldn't go for Titanium on the headers, do you have any idea what happens to Ti at 600+ °C?

Realibility is more important than weight in that department, also it's all weight under the engine, it's so low that it doesn't affect much the whole dynamics of the car.

Never headers. I dont think I have even heard of Ti headers? I was thinking of starting with everything behind the header, though a Ti race-pipe might not be a realistic alternative to a HFC.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

If there will be some demand from the world community (-->this forum mainly) and the final design of our headers will be good on power I'll see if an Inconel 1 mm thick header is feasible, that would weight nothing.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Gardus

I wouldn't go for Titanium on the headers, do you have any idea what happens to Ti at 600+ °C?

Realibility is more important than weight in that department, also it's all weight under the engine, it's so low that it doesn't affect much the whole dynamics of the car.

Why don't you tell us what happens to Ti at 600+ C?

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Gardus

If there will be some demand from the world community (-->this forum mainly) and the final design of our headers will be good on power I'll see if an Inconel 1 mm thick header is feasible, that would weight nothing.

Im no metallurgist but a header out of Inconel (600?) sounds out of this world!

I understand it would be a real demand based product, what $ neighborhood would you guess something like that runs in?