2014 Nissan 370Z

[OrbitalEllipses]

New Ecoboost Mustang is ~$26K...

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

New Ecoboost Mustang is ~$26K...

Bet it still won't come with painted mirrors.

[blackhawkdown]

I think people are missing the point of the 370z base model and its price point. For $29k, you have a more upscale RWD sports car compare to the twins. These two cars are for two different people, two different markets and two different demographics of people.

FRS is about $24k and a BRZ is about $26k. For that price you get a nice little toss up car, nothing upscale or any significant technological value. Bare bones compare to the 370z.

The 370z is a more upscale, mature RWD sports car. The interior is more upscale and the aesthetics is more of an opinion, so that doesn't matter. The ride is smoother and more refined. There is more technology offer in the 370z compared to the twins. Now the elephant in the room, it has more HP and Torque then the twins, a lot more. To get to that kind of hp, the twins need FI which is an additional $3k-$9k (depending on your FI route) which easily tops the base 370z price point.

I know there is gonna be a bias opinions here because this is in fact a BRZ/FRS forum, but you do have to give the 370z its props on the price point and target market due to its suggested MSRP.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

I think people are missing the point of the 370z base model and its price point. For $29k, you have a more upscale RWD sports car compare to the twins. These two cars are for two different people, two different markets and two different demographics of people.

FRS is about $24k and a BRZ is about $26k. For that price you get a nice little toss up car, nothing upscale or any significant technological value. Bare bones compare to the 370z.

The 370z is a more upscale, mature RWD sports car. The interior is more upscale and the aesthetics is more of an opinion, so that doesn't matter. The ride is smoother and more refined. There is more technology offer in the 370z compared to the twins. Now the elephant in the room, it has more HP and Torque then the twins, a lot more. To get to that kind of hp, the twins need FI which is an additional $3k-$9k (depending on your FI route) which easily tops the base 370z price point.

I know there is gonna be a bias opinions here because this is in fact a BRZ/FRS forum, but you do have to give the 370z its props on the price point and target market due to its suggested MSRP.

It's also much heavier, has an old & too large chassis, a clunky, unrefined gearbox/shifter, and it's difficult/expensive to make extra power and/or track the car reliably. It doesn't sell well. Everybody knows a new Z on a new, smaller platform is coming some time within the next couple of years.... It might even be on the same platform as the IDx. It would make sense for them to use a platform for multiple sports cars if they go through the trouble and cost of designing and building a new platform.

The 2015 Nismo update is probably the last update that will happen until they introduce a brand new Z.

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Everybody knows a new Z on a new, smaller platform is coming some time within the next couple of years....

sounds like the new 2016 Turbo FRS/BRZ news. until then, the $29k price point is a great deal. I just think that the 370z has a different targeted market then the twins. Subaru/Toyota is targeting the younger crowd with its price points compared to Nissan and its price points on the 370z base model.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by regal

No its not a sports/performance car without LSD, poser.

yeah just like that posermobile maclaren p1...

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by regal

No its not a sports/performance car without LSD, poser.

That makes the Cayman not a sports car either, which is a rather interesting position to take...

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by totopo

Sheesh, I don't understand why people get so butt-hurt about other cars on this forum. Yes, you're on this forum because you like the ft86. Yes, it's a great car for some reasons, but it's not like the ultimate car or anything.

I can and do heel toe, and I still mostly leave the synchro rev match on. It is very convenient, especially for daily driving when you're not downshifting to red-line. The computer is sadly just so much better than humans, and it saves me wear on my clutch. If you think the driving experience on a torque-converter paddle shifter is anything like a manual with snychro rev match you are sorely mistaken.

The 370z is great performance for its price, if by performance you mean road course times. Sadly, it's hard to find good lap times to compare, because so few pro-drivers have logged lap times in the 370z

If you look at the amateur level though, the 370z is very well regarded. Look at the time trial categories for NASA, the 370z starts out as TTB + 14 points. The step just right below TT123.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/time_trial_rules.pdf (page 19+)

cars that are similar price and similar or better category is basically the mustang GT, camaro SS, wrx sti, and evo x mr.

But again, what do track times get you? You just compete with faster cars :/ It does get you a different driving experience at the track though. A lot of people have fun flying through corners in their miatas and put-putting it down the straights. Others like to drag race it down the straights. Other like to rocket out of corners with their 4wd. why can't we appreciate the diversity.

Excuse me, why are you speaking for someone else's post I quoted? Did you even read their post before spouting off and citing my response??

Lol, sounds like you're the one butt hurt to me. The only reason the current Z car could be considered 'budget' at all is because the 86 came out and drove it's price down by stealing its sales at a better price point. Even then, I'm not entirely sold on the argument.

I was also questioning the claim about the 370 being untouched performance wise which you later agree is a silly claim when you post all the other competitors in class. I'm pretty disappointed with how the new Stang came out but I'm pretty sure I could get a 2015 Stang and rickroll your 370 performance wise for the same or better $$ ratio. Doesn't sound like something 'untouchable' to me.

My comment about getting the Z car because you someone doesn't get the 86 is simply that. A lower powered lighter corner carver is not even remotely comparable what is essentially a Japanese Mustang in the shape of an egg. If a person has trouble picking between the two, I can't see how they would ever be happy with a twin. You either get that type of driving experience and want it or you don't. I don't see what's complicated about the choice or your lack of understanding that is really isn't a choice. You already know you want a Z car and seems like that's what you picked if you leave synchro mesh on all the time.

I personally don't see how you're being mature and promoting diversity running around saying stuff like the 370z is untouchable on a different car's forum. Hah, that's pretty rich. I appreciate your backtracking on someone else's silly statement though. Seems rather presumptuous of you but okay.

And I didn't say driving a paddle shifted torque converter is like driving a manual with synchro mesh so stop putting words in my mouth. It's also not like driving a sequential or DSG and they each have pluses and minuses. My comment largely stems from the manual stick Nazis that rail on about preserving the 'purity' of the driving experience. I just find it ironic if they start taking to automated technology to improve the experience. Thankfully, you seem to appreciate the tech for your needs rather than being one of those other vocal nutjob 'purists' so I appreciate that.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by regal

No its not a sports/performance car without LSD, poser.

Damn, so my Cayman S isn't a sports car? Neither is a Lotus Elise?

...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Excuse me, why are you speaking for someone else's post I quoted? Did you even read their post before spouting off and citing my response??

Lol, sounds like you're the one butt hurt to me. The only reason the current Z car could be considered 'budget' at all is because the 86 came out and drove it's price down by stealing its sales at a better price point. Even then, I'm not entirely sold on the argument.

I was also questioning the claim about the 370 being untouched performance wise which you later agree is a silly claim when you post all the other competitors in class. I'm pretty disappointed with how the new Stang came out but I'm pretty sure I could get a 2015 Stang and rickroll your 370 performance wise for the same or better $$ ratio. Doesn't sound like something 'untouchable' to me.

My comment about getting the Z car because you someone doesn't get the 86 is simply that. A lower powered lighter corner carver is not even remotely comparable what is essentially a Japanese Mustang in the shape of an egg. If a person has trouble picking between the two, I can't see how they would ever be happy with a twin. You either get that type of driving experience and want it or you don't. I don't see what's complicated about the choice or your lack of understanding that is really isn't a choice. You already know you want a Z car and seems like that's what you picked if you leave synchro mesh on all the time.

I personally don't see how you're being mature and promoting diversity running around saying stuff like the 370z is untouchable on a different car's forum. Hah, that's pretty rich. I appreciate your backtracking on someone else's silly statement though. Seems rather presumptuous of you but okay.

And I didn't say driving a paddle shifted torque converter is like driving a manual with synchro mesh so stop putting words in my mouth. It's also not like driving a sequential or DSG and they each have pluses and minuses. My comment largely stems from the manual stick Nazis that rail on about preserving the 'purity' of the driving experience. I just find it ironic if they start taking to automated technology to improve the experience. Thankfully, you seem to appreciate the tech for your needs rather than being one of those other vocal nutjob 'purists' so I appreciate that.

why would you say the frs is stealing sales from the z forcing a price drop (which is entirely speculative and not likely true) and then say that there isnt really a choice? believe it or not, its entirely possible for people to be torn between two cars that arent exactly alike because people can appreciate more than exactly one thing in a car. its the reason why coilovers sell for z cars and superchargers sell for the frs.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

why would you say the frs is stealing sales from the z forcing a price drop (which is entirely speculative and not likely true) and then say that there isnt really a choice? believe it or not, its entirely possible for people to be torn between two cars that arent exactly alike because people can appreciate more than exactly one thing in a car. its the reason why coilovers sell for z cars and superchargers sell for the frs.

Why would you presume Nissan lowering the price of the Z after the release of the 86 to a price point closer to the 86 is not related to the sales of the 86 and the lack of sales of Z cars? Isn't this thread indicative of some kind of relationship if the OP is thinking of buying a 370z or 86? I'd say so. If that's speculative on my part, it's also speculative for me to say the sun will rise tomorrow. You certainly don't know that will happen for sure either, so let's all speculate about everything!


Sure, everything is a choice by definition. Mini Cooper versus Mack truck, what should I drive? I dunno, and that's exactly the point! The choice is not about evaluating the cars, because the cars are obvious for what they are. Most of these 'what should I drive' threads or posts are about the driver not knowing themselves and what they want, not what the car can offer. If the problem is with the driver not knowing themselves, asking other people about various cars is pointless and we sure can't tell OP what it is that they want. Therefore, pretty much most of these types of threads or posts are essentially trolls to help a potential buyer feel good or bad about making or not making a decision. Any constructive posts should be very specific about particular aspects of each car. Like, "how bad are these crickets I read about?" "Is the extra weight on the Z really that noticeable?" Not, "I like having 350hp and don't care about weight, should I get a BRZ?" I mean, does that question even make sense? Personally I don't think it does.


Btw, I have 5 cars so I can appreciate having choices about different cars. But not once did I ever think of involving an entire forum to help me decide between a hybrid sedan or a mid-engine roadster. Sorry, but to me, the 370z and the FRS are just that different to not even enter the same conversation because they are two different driving styles and priorities. The right question to ask is for the buyer to ask himself about himself, not a forum about two different cars.


Just seems like a masturbatory exercise to me for a buyer's own introspection. The cars in such instances are just a red herring. Now if this were a question of 370z versus Genesis Coupe versus Mustang, hell yeah that makes perfect sense to ask about. But if you prefer how the BRZ drives and what it's about, you won't choose to drive a 370z. No, there is no real choice to make except to figure your own priorities out. But hey, don't let me stop you or anyone else from playing along.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Why would you presume Nissan lowering the price of the Z after the release of the 86 to a price point closer to the 86 is not related to the sales of the 86 and the lack of sales of Z cars? Isn't this thread indicative of some kind of relationship if the OP is thinking of buying a 370z or 86? I'd say so. If that's speculative on my part, it's also speculative for me to say the sun will rise tomorrow. You certainly don't know that will happen for sure either, so let's all speculate about everything!


Sure, everything is a choice by definition. Mini Cooper versus Mack truck, what should I drive? I dunno, and that's exactly the point! The choice is not about evaluating the cars, because the cars are obvious for what they are. Most of these 'what should I drive' threads or posts are about the driver not knowing themselves and what they want, not what the car can offer. If the problem is with the driver not knowing themselves, asking other people about various cars is pointless and we sure can't tell OP what it is that they want. Therefore, pretty much most of these types of threads or posts are essentially trolls to help a potential buyer feel good or bad about making or not making a decision. Any constructive posts should be very specific about particular aspects of each car. Like, "how bad are these crickets I read about?" "Is the extra weight on the Z really that noticeable?" Not, "I like having 350hp and don't care about weight, should I get a BRZ?" I mean, does that question even make sense? Personally I don't think it does.


Btw, I have 5 cars so I can appreciate having choices about different cars. But not once did I ever think of involving an entire forum to help me decide between a hybrid sedan or a mid-engine roadster. Sorry, but to me, the 370z and the FRS are just that different to not even enter the same conversation because they are two different driving styles and priorities. The right question to ask is for the buyer to ask himself about himself, not a forum about two different cars.


Just seems like a masturbatory exercise to me for a buyer's own introspection. The cars in such instances are just a red herring. Now if this were a question of 370z versus Genesis Coupe versus Mustang, hell yeah that makes perfect sense to ask about. But if you prefer how the BRZ drives and what it's about, you won't choose to drive a 370z. No, there is no real choice to make except to figure your own priorities out. But hey, don't let me stop you or anyone else from playing along.

on a personal level, i dont even really disagree with you. i could probalby sit here and turn this into a lengthy argument about certain points and semantics but i dont think it will help prove a point. i just think that even though this sort of topic wont be useful to someone like you or me (i also have 5 cars), doesnt mean that others cant discover valuable data. thats not even considering that a person may well just appreciate the different things from different cars equally. if you want the power of the z and the hanlding of the frs but cant afford a cayman, this might be the thread for you. these kinds of threads are even great for people who do all the research in the world. they may know a lot of things but the unknown unknowns might still be there. what better way to bring light to these suble differences than to ask people who may have first hand experience with the two?

[mothespaceman]

I owned a brand new 09' 370Z for a good while and I've gotta say... it felt like one of the least enthusiastic cars I've driven.

It looked sweet and made decent power, but there was always something missing.

[Boxer486]

[QUOTE=fatoni;1752229]on a personal level...QUOTE]


I agree we don't really disagree. I also agree there can be a value in it but only as you say with nuances and subtleties. Which is why a valuable question concerning such comparisons would involve specific questions like I mentioned, not broad sweeping generalizations that really have little to no value because either they are just obvious or flat out wrong. I guess on a personal level, I still just don't see how a person could test drive both of these cars and still have a problem deciding between the two.