Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by PatSciFRS

How did you get Bridgestone tires on your FRS? I thought that they all came standard with Michelin's Primacy HP tires.

Depends on the location and time of year.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by regal

I'm not the guy who posted the FA20 is being used in the turbo WRX and Forester, I was responding to that BS. You really need to start reading threads instead of posting 3rd grade photo's.

He was replying to you.

Your point is like saying the B18C5 is shit because it was only used in the Integra Type-R. Ignoring that it's just a B series with different crank, rods, piston, head, etc.

It's a dumb point to make. If they truly considered the FA20T to be a different family it would have been FB20T, FC20T, etc. Instead it's an FA20 with a bunch of different parts to match it's application.

You seem to enjoy getting the locals riled up and it's getting old.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It is too slow. If I switch to the BRZ from any of my other cars it's amazing how slow it is. On track I think I could eat lunch on the back straight at Sebring and finish before T17.

If the car had 50 more WHP it would be perfect IMO, it doesn't need 400hp or anything like that, but it does need more.

I bought my car used in May of last year just in time to swap the brake fluid and take it to Roebling (I know not the best the Southeast has to offer but friends of mine host 2-3 events there each year)and baseline it stock. Absolute sitting duck even in the intermediate group, I could have cooked and eaten lunch on that straight especially with no exit speed to speak of. In August with brakes, tires and suspension mods, 8 seconds came off the lap times(1:23.7)but I had to honk the horn a couple times to get cars I had caught to lift a little as I had lost momentum. Been back once with E85 tune, headers and full exhaust and it is transformational with 40 more whp. Unfortunately weather didn't help and the best lap was 123:8 on a drying track. Terminal speed was up from 119 to 130

[regal]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal
If you live in an area that is flat and straight, buying this car is a mistake IMHO. I too live in PA but if I still lived in the flat midwest it would have been WRX all the way. This car is a great drivers car but the engine is a dog. Its an NA with more lag than a 70' turbo due to the torque dip. The FA20 will not be used in any other cars, its a one-off mistake . Everything else about the car is great, I blame Tada for this grave mistake that kept this from being a world class car.
This is a bogus comment. The FA20 has already been carried over into the forester XT. And as far as the torque dip, it adds character to the car. You have to work for the power, to drive with the torque dip in mind will allow you to become a better driver for this car.





.

I was responding to this. Someone claiming the FA20 is being used in other vehicles, its not and never will be because its a mistake.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

He was replying to you.

Your point is like saying the B18C5 is shit because it was only used in the Integra Type-R. Ignoring that it's just a B series with different crank, rods, piston, head, etc.

It's a dumb point to make. If they truly considered the FA20T to be a different family it would have been FB20T, FC20T, etc. Instead it's an FA20 with a bunch of different parts to match it's application.

You seem to enjoy getting the locals riled up and it's getting old.

How many parts does the FA20 & FA20T share? The crank, I think that's it. Please tell me where I said the FA20 is shit, I said it was a mistake the FA20T should be in this car (tuned/setup for higher reving.)


If the locals don't like the history and facts of Tada's blunder then its time to grow up its just a damn car.

[Trettiosjuan]

You're funny, claiming for all the FA20 is a failed engine, then proposing a turbo'd engine. It may be made by Subaru but the car is still a successor for the low-powered Naturally Aspirated AE86. If you wanted more power perhaps you shouldn't have bought a modern 2-litre NA engine in the first place. An engine which in this day and age is a dying breed and if not great, certainly is a good engine. With room for improvement to greatness, at a cost of course...

[regal]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

You're funny, claiming for all the FA20 is a failed engine, then proposing a turbo'd engine. It may be made by Subaru but the car is still a successor for the low-powered Naturally Aspirated AE86. If you wanted more power perhaps you shouldn't have bought a modern 2-litre NA engine in the first place. An engine which in this day and age is a dying breed and if not great, certainly is a good engine. With room for improvement to greatness, at a cost of course...

If you read my posts I said this is a great car. For me it is fast because I grew up when this would have been considered a fast car. The mistake is a financial/marketing/ selling one. Why are their so few objectivists on this forum?

[Trettiosjuan]

Main problem is not the car but the general public that has forgotten about what makes a great drivers car. Or about driving for that matter. One car cannot not make the difference on the global market.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Main problem is not the car but the general public that has forgotten about what makes a great drivers car. Or about driving for that matter. One car cannot not make the difference on the global market.

Yes they could have used a version of the FA20T designed to spool fast and rev a bit. Without the DS-4 B.S. it wouldn't add any cost to the vehicle IMHO and the car would be considered god's gift to the general car enthusiast. Then is would have been considered a "great car" not just to guys like us.

[TylerLieberman]

I still feel like the car just needs a bit more. FI will always be a personal preference. I love the feeling of boost. It's fun. I don't like massive turbos or extreme lag. I like the smaller turbo setups that are more usable.

For this car though, I feel like if the torque dip was gone and it had a bit more power in the upper half, it would be perfect. Still N/A. 220-230hp with no torque dip would be a load of fun I'm sure.

Definitely a good read though

[regal]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I still feel like the car just needs a bit more. FI will always be a personal preference. I love the feeling of boost.

And this is how the general public will remember this car, its place in history is what could have been. I think its a great car for me, but the majority won't and they also live in flat straight geography.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by regal

And this is how the general public will remember this car, its place in history is what could have been. I think its a great car for me, but the majority won't and they also live in flat straight geography.

It's a good car but it's not perfect by any means. There are things that could have been done better without adding additional cost. There are people out there that will always hate this car and there are people who think this car is perfect and is the holy grail of the automotive world.

I'm not in either category. I believe the FRS/BRZ is the best FR layout car you can buy for under 30k without a doubt. It's fun, enjoyable, and inexpensive.

The car was built with the driver in mind, but also to be a blank canvas. Something that somebody could make their own. Some people will do that with huge wheels/tires and loads of power via FI, others will do it with slammed suspension and aggressive wheel setups. The people who think the car needs more power has the option to do so with aftermarket parts. People who think it needs certain exterior changes has that option as well.

It's impossible to satisfy everybody from the get go. People will always find things they don't like about something after enough time with it. Some people choose to quit and sell the car. Others choose to embrace it and build upon it.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I believe the FRS/BRZ is the best FR layout car you can buy for under 30k without a doubt. It's fun, enjoyable, and inexpensive.

What a lot of people seem to forget, or maybe don't even realize, is that cars similar to this were common two decades ago. The 86 carries over aspects of those cars, but in particular looks great and has a sort of uniqueness about it, a type of first timer.

Myself, I still cherish those models, exceptionally those offered by Toyota. However, when the majority of people see this car they automatically associate it with "Toyota Supra" and in turn, "The Fast and Furious". A sense of disappointment I can understand, however there were more great pages that made the whole story.

[regal]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

It's a good car but it's not perfect by any means. There are things that could have been done better without adding additional cost. There are people out there that will always hate this car and there are people who think this car is perfect and is the holy grail of the automotive world.

I'm not in either category. I believe the FRS/BRZ is the best FR layout car you can buy for under 30k without a doubt. It's fun, enjoyable, and inexpensive.

The car was built with the driver in mind, but also to be a blank canvas. Something that somebody could make their own. Some people will do that with huge wheels/tires and loads of power via FI, others will do it with slammed suspension and aggressive wheel setups. The people who think the car needs more power has the option to do so with aftermarket parts. People who think it needs certain exterior changes has that option as well.

It's impossible to satisfy everybody from the get go. People will always find things they don't like about something after enough time with it. Some people choose to quit and sell the car. Others choose to embrace it and build upon it.

Originally Posted by FRSupra

What a lot of people seem to forget, or maybe don't even realize, is that cars similar to this were common two decades ago. The 86 carries over aspects of those cars, but in particular looks great and has a sort of uniqueness about it, a type of first timer.

Myself, I still cherish those models, exceptionally those offered by Toyota. However, when the majority of people see this car they automatically associate it with "Toyota Supra" and in turn, "The Fast and Furious". A sense of disappointment I can understand, however there were more great pages that made the whole story.

I couldn't agree more with these two posts. But even though I am completely satisfied with my FRS now that I have the 2014 calibration, you just have to wonder how a 270hp FA20DIT would have turned the auto industry upside down, it would have truly made this car compete with a Porsche and IMHO it makes this car "the car that could have been great".


I still am stuck in the 80's early 90's but the rest of the world isn't DIT is magical if you ever get a chance drive the new Cayman and ask yourself why did TADA killed Subaru's brilliant FA20T for our car. With mass production of that engine in the forester and wrx and dropping D4-s it wouldn't have added any real cost if they tuned it for not too much torque. Its a shame really but as you say no car is prefect and hopefully going NA will mean longer term reliability which is more important to me. Also heads up Mike53 doesn't like plus's/minus's posts so have that flame suit ready

[xxBrun0xx]

Originally Posted by regal

I couldn't agree more with these two posts. But even though I am completely satisfied with my FRS now that I have the 2014 calibration, you just have to wonder how a 270hp FA20DIT would have turned the auto industry upside down, it would have truly made this car compete with a Porsche and IMHO it makes this car "the car that could have been great".


I still am stuck in the 80's early 90's but the rest of the world isn't DIT is magical if you ever get a chance drive the new Cayman and ask yourself why did TADA killed Subaru's brilliant FA20T for our car. With mass production of that engine in the forester and wrx and dropping D4-s it wouldn't have added any real cost if they tuned it for not too much torque. Its a shame really but as you say no car is prefect and hopefully going NA will mean longer term reliability which is more important to me. Also heads up Mike53 doesn't like plus's/minus's posts so have that flame suit ready

Because a +$35k 86 is a totally different car competing with totally different cars. I came from the WRX/STI world. Built my WRX, then my STI. Turbos come with a whole slew of problems, and the 86 does NOT need one. More power isn't always better.

"Mo Power, Mo Problems"
-Biggie Smalls