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Old 04-16-2014, 12:00 AM   #1
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Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

There has been an influx lately on the topic that maybe forced induction isn't needed. People are talking, realizing. And it's not just FI for that matter. I have read more intelligent, more satisfying posts on the forum than I've seen since joining back in 12.

Members are starting to reach a satisfaction without a need, something I have experienced since day one. I believe there are two kinds of 86 owners at this point, those that have not yet come to a realization and those that know what they have. "Wait, what's this guy talking about?", you're probably saying, "There could be an infinite number of reasons to buy this car, and that's in the eye of the beholder."

While this is true, it's this influx lately... I think, no, I know that some of you want to come to a realization that this a great car. I want to share with you some information from my perspective. Yeah, a lot of what's written here is opinionated, but it might hit closer to home than you think. It's OK to buy this car for it is, not what it could be.

To begin to understand why this car is great, I'd like to go back a little, to the late 80's. This is when what I believe was the golden age of automotive achievement. During this time the Japanese in particular were locked in a development race (like what the Germans are doing today) which led to the production of a few of my favorite cars and certainly some of the best of all time. Now, of course there were also wonderful cars like the F40 and 959, but the big power those cars made came with big problems, not to mention a big price tag. Japan on the other hand were making sports cars for the people. Simple cars. Cars that worked.

One such car in particular, and in my opinion the best car ever made, was the Honda NSX. This car had the recipe for what makes a perfect sports car:

Naturally aspirated engine
Rear wheel drive
and most importantly a manual transmission.

I know that Honda wasn't the first to get the recipe right, but I think they had perfected it to a level that is unmatched today. I could go into more detail why I specifically chose this car, (the Pininfarina styling, the 23 step aviation style paint work for the aluminum body, the fact that 200 workers with a minimum 10 years experience were hand chosen to assembly it, and so on) but I want to stay on point to keep your focus. Honda's goal was to make a car that could balance usable power with reliability. There are no turbos. There is no immense horsepower output. There is no slap shift automatic transmission doing the work. It's a car that requires the driver to actually drive. The power has to worked for, the high revving engine has to been taken to the limit. That's what it was designed to do and it's all done at speeds that are sane. It's a true drivers car meant for people who are passionate about driving. Best of all, it can be driven all day, everyday. It can be enjoyed by everyone. This is the same recipe that exists in the 86. (I know that the 86 falls a little short in performance of the Honda, and some might say that 60k in 1991 wasn't exactly cheap but the simple formula is there.)

Memeber Trackrider54 summed it up best:
Originally Posted by TrackRider54 View Post
When I saw the BRZ/FRS in person and test drove it, I immediately knew the demographic the car was aimed at. Me!

I'm 42, wife, child not in a car seat, and already have a "family car". This car is so scary similar to a Datsun 260z or 280z, early RX-7, Toyota Celica Supra, etc. All great cars from the late 70's and early 80's when guys my age were kids reading car mags or just getting our license.

The difference is, the twins have more power than those cars and obliterate them from a performance perspective. Even the best tires back in the 70's and 80's were far worse than the stock tires that come on the BRZ/FRS. Remember the Ferrari 308 from Magnum PI? do if you're my age. We all slobbered over that car. It wore 205/70-14 tires and made a whopping 255hp from a V8 and went 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds which was considered extremely fast back then and truth be told, it still is. Just because a V6 Camry can go faster doesn't mean it's as much fun doing it. I'd rather have a car that feels fast, than one that is fast.

Subaru/Toyota knew exactly who they were designing the car for. They really have the only game in town for those of us who are looking for a time machine of sorts. Yeah, I could buy a Mustang GT or a C6 Corvette, but I've driven them and they just feel huge and ungainly. I can't afford the maintenance on a BMW or Porsche.

Enter the BRZ/FRS. Just what I'm looking for. Inexpensive (relatively), cheap to own, cheap to maintain, good fuel mileage, reliable. If you drive this car like a sane person I see no reason why it wouldn't reward you with 200,000 miles.
The NSX is a benchmark that has been lost sight of. Nowadays it's all about horsepower numbers and track times, and I guess that's what it takes to stay competitive in today's market. That's what it has evolved into. My friend recently asked me to watch a Motor Trend video pitting the new Camaro Z/28 against the Nissan GT-R. He said with a grin, "I'll tell you what right now we are in the golden age of automotive". I just could not agree less. I'd say it's the pinnacle no doubt, but the former belongs to a different time. Anyone can throw a big engine in a car, but it's what makes that connection between the driver and the road that counts. Today a lot of enthusiasts are persuaded by the next big thing. It's almost turning into more of a culture or status statement that it is about actually appreciating the car. "It needs more power", or "wheres the turbo" is commonplace.

Today we are fortunate to have a car like the Toyota 86. It almost feels criminal that it's priced so low. Or as Arron Robinson of Car and Driver said when referencing the FR-S with the Porsche Cayman, "And if you canít pay it, feel lucky to live in a time when thereís such a superb alternative thatís affordable."
There is a reason this car has won so many awards. In many ways it's a lot like my dad's MGB. Just a blast to drive. Even a low speeds it feels like a rocket. When it was new, those cars were considered a cheap low performance car, but in retrospect they out performed any mustang in fun factor and drive ability and are readily sought after today. 200hp isn't much on paper, but it's more than adequate for a car that weighs some 2700 pounds. There is actually a lot more performance factored into this platform than I think even owners give credit for. I'm going to compile a list of some aspects of the car which a lot of you might not be aware of.

With all that being said, i'm not saying there isn't room for improvement...

...Tetsuya Tada is brilliant man.

When he was randomly chosen out of the blue to head the development of the platform he had the opportunity to go in any direction he wanted. He followed two principles: A back to basics approach and to create a car for anyone, one that can modified to each individuals liking. Modifying this car was half what it was designed for, that's where he drew the inspiration from the original AE86 corolla. But while this car makes such a great starting point for a track, drift, autox or what have you, that doesn't mean it isn't a great car already. It doesn't have to have a widebody kit bolted all over it to be good. It doesn't have to have huge wheels. It doesn't have to have a supercharger or turbocharger. All it's needs is a driver.

I encourage you all to check out the 86 Development Story here:

and if you have time I recommend this fantastic video review by Nino Karotta:
[ame=""]Epic Scion FR-S, Toyota GT86 test drive: racetrack, drift & cross-continental dash - HD - YouTube[/ame]

I'd like to leave you with a quote from widely respected automotive journalist Jeremy Clarkson;
"In traffic, you'll be in a car, same as everyone else. You're no better off than Simon Cowell in his Roller or that foolish idiot in the Nissan Versa. It's the same story on the motorway. But there will come a moment when the traffic thins, the police aren't looking and there's a nice bit of road ahead. At a time like this, a GT86 will make you happy. You will be reveling in the sort of thrills normally only on offer to the super-rich, but your thrill is better, because it's not scary. To make a Ferrari misbehave, you need to be doing Mach 2. To make a GT86 squirrel about, you only need to be doing 20."
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:10 AM   #2
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The problem with the world is that, people always want more.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:26 AM   #3
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The Miata is still arguably considered a great, small, RWD sports car that is also fun to drive and is reliable. Cheap to mod and maintain as well. The FR-S has easily slipped into the territory of that legend and point-for-point is as close to that as possible. The S2000 is another example, but can be more car than some can handle.

I have a nice big mod list for the car, but by the end of the day, it'll remain a NA car. That keeps the car relatively reliable, simple, and cheap (ish) to maintain. That's the magic of this car, IMO. It is a new gem of the auto enthusiast world like the Miata was (and in some ways, still is). It's also still very approachable to more people - it appeals to nearly every niche segment of the fun car market - it can be tracked, autox'd, modded, slammed, or simply left alone and used as a really good looking and reliable DD.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by FRSupra View Post
Members are starting to reach a satisfaction without a need, something I have experienced since day one.
Fucking brag about it.
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:47 AM   #5
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Agree 100%. .
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:02 AM   #6
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The way I'm modifying my car is to try to accentuate the perfect balance that Tada achieved. Simple exhaust mods with hi flow cats, more free flowing intake, spring drop of 1", wider street tires 235 and finally a mild tune.

I feel that all this car needs is 20-30+ HP at the wheels more and some slightly stickier tires. I still kept my stock wheels just in case of a skid pan day though.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:14 AM   #7
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co-sign 100%
Originally Posted by Rocket.Brz
She was not and never was 13 years old during the prom thread.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:25 AM   #8
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Well, @FRSupra ..... that was an interesting read .... long, but interesting ....

I can personally identify with many of your thoughts. From 1970-1979, I drove a MGB-GT. From 2006-2012, I drove a NC Miata. For the last year I've driven an FR-S. Yep, all three "got it right" ..... in their time ....for me at least. ...

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Old 04-16-2014, 01:27 AM   #9
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well written. and i agree with many of the points made. going full throttle in this car is fun. is offline   Reply With Quote
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:44 AM   #10
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I love my car

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Old 04-16-2014, 03:25 AM   #11
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and most importantly manual trans? all this hyperbole is a bit silly. its a great car but nothing new from a driving perspective. to bring up something like your dads mg and not mention a miata seems crazy. that car has always been there. im glad the frs is around and its almost unreasonably focused for coming off the showroom floor but still...
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatoni View Post
and most importantly manual trans? all this hyperbole is a bit silly. its a great car but nothing new from a driving perspective. to bring up something like your dads mg and not mention a miata seems crazy. that car has always been there. im glad the frs is around and its almost unreasonably focused for coming off the showroom floor but still...
"not mention a Miata"? Did you even read his piece?
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:43 AM   #13
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Funny I read almost the exact same sentiment while looking for info on the new Miata.

OP has made a great point...for everyday thrills, lightweight zippy cars are king (hence happy kids driving modded Civics); not bloated fuel sucking hulking cars that will be lucky to ever see the potential of their 500+ HP. Think soap box derby cars (do kids still do that anymore??) the ones everyone gets excited about have curvature, and steering, while the big boxy boring one that rolls fast and hits the finish line first SHOULD be the one everyone cares about, but yet the steering wheel is just for looks. True enthusiasts appreciate every car they've ever owned and hope to own. The people that come on here to bash their own car, aren't enthusiasts. I may wish the BRZ had a few more HP (via an oem tune/turbo preferably) but it doesn't make me think this car is any less "fancy" and the perfection of its balance is impossible to shake in a corner. I chose it to nudge me toward a Porsche and I look forward to all the subtle comparisons I'm going to make someday when I finally buy one.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:55 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by FRSupra
"I'd like to go back a little, to the late 80's. This is when what I believe was the golden age of automotive achievement."

I'm with you 101%, except for the above quote. Sure, the NSX was (and still is) a great car. But it hardly typifies the industry in the late '80s. The 959 was developed in 1981 on a platform designed in 1964 - evolution, not revolution, and hardly innovative. The Mustang grew a good 5L engine, but despite roller rockers they went back to a carburetor for the 85+ GT. And the electronics were so problematic they had to extend the warranty on the EEC. The coolest thing about that car was the stainless steel exhaust system that sounded like the '50s, not the future.

I think today is the golden age of automotive achievement, at least until tomorrow. Our daily drivers are incredibly reliable despite making 100 hp / liter, and most new cars today are amazingly sophisticated and fun compared to their recent predecessors. The industry-average JD Power "problems per 100 vehicles" rate for 2012 was 132, down from 151 in 2011. Toyota and Scion were 4th and 5th best with about 1% each against an industry average of 1.32%. And although Scion went up to 1.35% for 2013, it's still great (besting Nissan, Infinity, Kia, Hyundai, Audi and Volvo, for example) - and the industry average fell again to 126. Right through the '90s, the first thing I and many others did when buying a new car was to get a small notebook and pencil for the dashboard box, so I could be sure to write down everything that needed repair or correction before the warranty ran out.

Our 86s do amazing things that couldn't be bought off a dealer's lot only a few years ago. I've been chasing this dream for decades, but it's only now coming true. I bought (new) a 1967 1275 Cooper "S", a '74 Tii, the first GTI (1983) and the first GLI (1984) that came to our local VW dealer, the above-mentioned '85 Mustang GT, a '2000 Z3 coupe, and several other pocket rockets in various sizes and price ranges. Believe me - the latest golden age of automotive achievement is now.
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