Frs vs s2000

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by glamcem

If we are talking about best track performance for the money, new Camaros will always win ...ALWAYS try sub 3 mins at VIR and you'll see what I am talking about

They are not. They are talking about sub 50K cars and track performance of the period.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

They are not. They are talking about sub 50K cars and track performance of the period.

and Camaro 1LE is $33k cheaper than Evo and STI

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by glamcem

and Camaro 1LE is $33k cheaper than Evo and STI

Of the period.

There were no SS 1LE camaros in 2000.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Of the period.

There were no SS 1LE camaros in 2000.

my bad I didn't pay attention to that.. I've also noticed that the newer muscle cars came a long way to compete and surpasses the performance of the Japanese and German cars..wow

[DarkSunrise]

Yep tahdizzle is correct. Only talking about 00-03 timeframe, and sub-$50k. Hence Evo 8 and 350z.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yep tahdizzle is correct. Only talking about 00-03 timeframe, and sub-$50k. Hence Evo 8 and 350z.

At that time frame I would pick an Evo any day but C5 Z06 was also too close ..
Priced at $51k and would wipe anything on that list

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by glamcem

At that time frame I would pick an Evo any day but C5 Z06 was also too close ..
Priced at $51k and would wipe anything on that list

Another fine choice. Although I get the feeling WolfpackS2k picked a $50k ceiling precisely to exclude the C5Z.

[chrisl]

The E36/8 M Coupe would probably be faster than the s2k around most tracks as well (and it was mid 40k range, I think...).

[tahdizzle]

But since DarkSunrise Picked a S2000 CR, I'm gonna have to chime in with a 2006 Lotus Elise @ 3:09.2 MSRP of 43 grand.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

It was inspired by Honda's racing heritage.... Think open top F1 and Indy cars. That's why they made it a roadster.

That's utterly ridiculous. Unless Mazda and Toyota made their roadsters from F1 inspiration too because that's what Honda was competing with making a roadster. It wouldn't be an F1 experience without a helmet on, open wheel and an engine behind your head. The only somewhat F1 influenced Honda is the NSX, not the S2K.


As for 2000-2003 cars under $50K? Personally I would and did take a MR-S + $10K over the S2K and saved 400lbs doing so. The S2K has always struck me as a bigger, faster, more expensive Miata neither of which was as involving or roomy as the MR or as practical as the 86.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHtgnZIxNHc"]NA on the run - Amuse S2000 - Hot Version International - YouTube[/ame]

Honestly watching people go ga-ga over how amaaaazing the S2K driving experience is really is no different than others fawning over how the 86, Mini Cooper or current Miata handles like a go kart, none of which are true. Drive an MR, Lotus or Atom and you'll just roll your eyes at some of these "ultimate driving machine" comments.

The S2K is it's own set of compromises and I'd say appeals more to those that want a drop top and have only one or two slots to spare in their garage. FWIW, I've had no problem keeping up with or passing some S2Ks on Ortega Hwy so if you're on the fence I wouldn't worry about the 86 not being able to hang even on Prius tires. You can see the same on some track videos too comparing both cars, of course the diver it ultimately the last word on who or what's faster.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by chrisl

According to Sport Auto's times at the Nordschleife, it's the other way around:

Evo VI (tested 11/1999): 8:24
Evo VII (tested 11/2002): 8:25
S2k (tested 01/2000): 8:39

All with the same driver too (Horst von Saurma)...

Then you must think the GT-R is the second coming of god

Although, the CP9A never it to the states

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

That's utterly ridiculous. Unless Mazda and Toyota made their roadsters from F1 inspiration too because that's what Honda was competing with making a roadster. It wouldn't be an F1 experience without a helmet on, open wheel and an engine behind your head. The only somewhat F1 influenced Honda is the NSX, not the S2K.


As for 2000-2003 cars under $50K? Personally I would and did take a MR-S + $10K over the S2K and saved 400lbs doing so. The S2K has always struck me as a bigger, faster, more expensive Miata neither of which was as involving or roomy as the MR or as practical as the 86.

Honestly watching people go ga-ga over how amaaaazing the S2K driving experience is really is no different than others fawning over how the 86, Mini Cooper or current Miata handles like a go kart, none of which are true. Drive an MR, Lotus or Atom and you'll just roll your eyes at some of these "ultimate driving machine" comments.

The S2K is it's own set of compromises and I'd say appeals more to those that want a drop top and have only one or two slots to spare in their garage. FWIW, I've had no problem keeping up with or passing some S2Ks on Ortega Hwy so if you're on the fence I wouldn't worry about the 86 not being able to hang even on Prius tires. You can see the same on some track videos too comparing both cars, of course the diver it ultimately the last word on who or what's faster.

Challenge accepted

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Then you must think the GT-R is the second coming of god

No, not really. I prioritize things other than pure track performance as far as what I like in a car (which is why I bought a Cayman rather than a Corvette). The question was track performance though, not subjective driving feel and enjoyment

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Frost

Not sure what you mean by that - you will have educate me unfortunately. Please do? I don't mean to be facetious - I really don't know what you are referring to.

AP1 - 153lb/ft - 9000 rpm redline - 4.1 final drive
Secondary Gear Reduction - 1.160
1st gear - 3.133
2nd gear - 2.045
3rd gear - 1.481
4th gear - 1.161
5th gear - 0.970
6th gear - 0.810

AP2 - 162lb/ft - 8200 rpm redline - 4.1 final drive
Secondary Gear Reduction - 1.208
1st gear - 3.133
2nd gear - 2.045
3rd gear - 1.481
4th gear - 1.161
5th gear - 0.942
6th gear - 0.763

FRS AT - 151 lb/ft - 7400 rpm redline - 4.1 final drive
1 3.626
2 2.188
3 1.541
4 1.213
5 1
6 0.767

FRS MT - 151 lb/ft - 7400 rpm redline - 4.1 final drive
3.538
2.060
1.404
1.000
0.713
0.582

Note that the S2000 has a higher redline, more torque, and more aggressive gearing numbers. It has more mechanical torque multiplication, substantially more.

Lets do a crude calculation. 2nd gear on both the MT FRS and AP2 redline at about 58mph.

1.208 * 2.045 * 8200 * 162 = 12707185.99
1 * 2.060 * 7400 * 151 = 9437560

That's a 34% difference.

Now obviously both cars dont make peak torque at redline, but you get my point...