The Scion FR-S Needs More Power Says Nissan Product Boss: Nissan Mad???

[BRZBlack]

The only thing I like is the placement of the mirrors.

[billwot]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

Sports car does not automatically mean fast nor powerful. Many sports cars in the past have not been speed demons and given there's a high chance contemporary sedans could best them in a drag race. The Triumph TR cars were never fast, but they're definitely sports cars. The Fiat X1/9 or original Toyota MR2, they're sports cars but their engines have economy car origins and as a result they're not hugely fast. The twins fall in the same category, they're not particularly fast relative to even some mainstream cars but they were designed to be light weight, nimble with the intention of being capable of taking on motorsports events.

That said with the example you've given. The Sienna at best is capable of a 0-60 of 7.5 seconds, most say its 7.9 seconds. That is a very competitive time for a AT FRS/BRZ where its fuel economy gearing does put it in that position. The MT FRS/BRZ though, they're often quoted near the 6.5 second range. It will beat the Sienna, but that's not enough to take on a V6 Camry. That said, the Camaro V6 also struggles to defeat a V6 Camry.

MX5 Miata...most successful sports car in history!

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/happy...cid=autos_5492

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I'd say this and the IDx are the same thing. Look at the overall size and shape. The IDx is the same thing, just evolved into an old Datsun style instead of that fugly fat G35/G37 style... Still, the IDx isn't great looking either. I fully suspect it will be the equivalent of a modern Silvia in everything but looks... I just wish they designed it after the S15 instead. A more modern, sleek S15 with the great steering and handling of the FR-S but with the same 250hp as the S15 would be awesome. At 200hp the IDx doesn't sound very exciting unless it is either as light as a Miata or they give us a really stout factory turbo engine that can easily take some extra boost...

They're actually not the same size. The Nissan Foria Concept is a slight lager car overall when compared to the IDx.

Nissan Foria Concept
Overall length: 171.2
Overall width: 66.7
Overall height: 53.9

Nissan IDx Concept
Overall length: 161.4
Overall width: 66.9
Overall height: 51.2

When compared to the Toyota 86
Overall length: 166.9 in
Overall width: 69.9 in
Overall height: 50.6 in

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by billwot

MX5 Miata...most successful sports car in history!

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/happy...cid=autos_5492

The NA and and NB had good sales, but sales of the current NC have tanked.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

The NA and and NB had good sales, but sales of the current NC have tanked.

i wouldnt say they tanked. the nc is just old and combined with the whole economic downturn aroun 08, it makes sense.

[Wise]

Originally Posted by BRZBlack

The only thing I like is the placement of the mirrors.

Which would almost certainly be redesigned to look more normal if this car ever made it past the concept stage, which I'm betting it wont.

Nissan has the GTR which is an amazing car but it's sort of the polar opposite of the GT86 in terms of what they set out to do for the driver.

If the reports that the next Z will be lighter are to be believed then I might be swayed...

[headlikeahole]

Originally Posted by airjonny

+100. If you talk to Tada san about the engine bay, you would think he was talking about a 300zx TT. Saying they won't make a faster one is one thing, but don't insult our intelligence with these BS excuses.

It's not BS it's the new pedestrian safety rules. Engine and componants must be X distance from the hood to soften the impact of a pedestrian. The other empty space you see in the bay accounts for crumpling on impact. So the engine bay isn't actually "empty" its just the new norms.

They didn't go with the subaru boxer just because it was good for handling; it's the only way they could have made that low hood legal. Just because you can fit a huge turbo or a 2JZ in there doesn't mean Toyota can legaly sell it like that.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i wouldnt say they tanked. the nc is just old and combined with the whole economic downturn aroun 08, it makes sense.

Ok, but the economic has picked up and sales are still in general are still declining.

Also during the last year for the NA and NB, sales where at least half of what they were when the model first debuted. But if you look at current sales they aren't anywhere close to half of what they where when the NC debuted.

MX-5 US Sales

1989: 23,052 (NA introduced)
1990: 35,944
1991: 31,240
1992: 24,964
1993: 21,588
1994: 21,400
1995: 20,174
1996: 18,408
1997: 17,218
1998: 19,845 (replaced by NB)
1999: 17,738
2000: 18,299
2001: 16,486
2002: 14,392
2003: 10,920
2004: 9,356
2005: 9,801 (replaced by NC)
2006: 16,897 (first full years of sales)
2007: 15,075
2008: 10,977
2009: 7917
2010: 6370
2011: 5674
2012: 6305
2013: 5780

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Ok, but the economic has picked up and sales are still in general are still declining.

Also during the last year for the NA and NB, sales where at least half of what they were when the model first debuted. But if you look at current sales they aren't anywhere close to half of what they where when the NC debuted.

MX-5 US Sales

1989: 23,052 (NA introduced)
1990: 35,944
1991: 31,240
1992: 24,964
1993: 21,588
1994: 21,400
1995: 20,174
1996: 18,408
1997: 17,218
1998: 19,845 (replaced by NB)
1999: 17,738
2000: 18,299
2001: 16,486
2002: 14,392
2003: 10,920
2004: 9,356
2005: 9,801 (replaced by NC)
2006: 16,897 (first full years of sales)
2007: 15,075
2008: 10,977
2009: 7917
2010: 6370
2011: 5674
2012: 6305
2013: 5780

yeah the economy is recovering but there is a large difference between a recovering economy and the kind of economy that supports purchasing what is basically a toy. that decline looks pretty similar to other sport cars over the same years. if anything, the addition of the nc created a spike that is unusually high. that peak seems to be the anomaly rather than the percieved rapid decline.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by fatoni

yeah the economy is recovering but there is a large difference between a recovering economy and the kind of economy that supports purchasing what is basically a toy. that decline looks pretty similar to other sport cars over the same years. if anything, the addition of the nc created a spike that is unusually high. that peak seems to be the anomaly rather than the percieved rapid decline.

Yes, usually sales of niche products like the MX-5 and Z will decline over the years. My point was just that sales have taken a sharp decline. If you look at years 2009-2013, sales are way lower than lets say 2000-2004. I understand the economy will always play a role with niche products. All I'm saying is regardless of the state of the economy, sales are lower when compared to previous models.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Yes, usually sales of niche products like the MX-5 and Z will decline over the years. My point was just that sales have taken a sharp decline. If you look at years 2009-2013, sales are way lower than lets say 2000-2004. I understand the economy will always play a role with niche products. All I'm saying is regardless of the state of the economy, sales are lower when compared to previous models.

there are certainly a lot of things to explain what happend. i still dont think its really evidence of the miata not being the greatest sports car of all time or whatever that person was saying (im not even sure i agree with that statement too much). for example, in 2009, cash for clunkers pretty much devastated the used miata market with its $4500 in rebates so many people who would be looking for a miata have stayed in the used market. i guess the bottom line is that im still not convinced the miata has tanked.

[fistpoint]

It needs more power as badly as it needs more cost associated with purchase...hell, lets just make it 400hp and $40k.

[Wolfking]

This must be another April fool's joke! Better late than never. Nissan has been a major letdown for me since 2003. Also, is it me or is the IDX, FUGLY? I fail to see the point of turbo charging an engine to make 200hp! I really hope they are not serious...that "next Z" concept has just hideous! WTF nISSAN? Perhaps you'd better revive your S chassis! (still longing for my S14)

It was this type of shortsightedness that chased me into the seat of a Toyobaru/Scion.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by fatoni

there are certainly a lot of things to explain what happend. i still dont think its really evidence of the miata not being the greatest sports car of all time or whatever that person was saying (im not even sure i agree with that statement too much). for example, in 2009, cash for clunkers pretty much devastated the used miata market with its $4500 in rebates so many people who would be looking for a miata have stayed in the used market. i guess the bottom line is that im still not convinced the miata has tanked.

Well I never said it was or was not the "greatest sports car for all time". What I am saying is sales are bad. At its current rate Mazda will only selling about 5,000 MX-5 this years.