Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[Zeus]

Bumping this thread because it's awesome. Who's ready for 20 questions lol.

A few thoughts first:

Third week with the car, my first manual. Finally getting the hang of smooth starts after getting stuck in traffic and literally bucking the car every time I had to come to a complete stop. Learned I had to tell myself to stop thinking about "letting the clutch out" but instead "keep pressing down on the clutch, just less" and keep the spring pressure against my foot all the way up. This clutch is high! No idea how you guys work it with you heel on the ground.

I can't upshift to second for shit. Can't downshift into it either for that matter.

On to the questions:

When I start from a stop I'm obviously feathering the throttle as I let off the clutch into first. Do you do the same thing upshifting to higher gears? Or is it a more defined clutch-shift-clutch-gas?

My downshifts are quite jerky. Are you required to rev match into every gear to get them smooth? Or do you just need to let the clutch out slowly or time rpms better or something? I've actually gotten decent a rev matching down to third as I'm coming up to a stoplight, it seem pretty forgiving and I just give it a good blip and it slides right in. The rest of them not so much and I'm wondering if it's even necessary.

Turning:
Let say you're coming up to a green light to make a left moving at a good clip. You've got time to make the turn but there some oncoming traffic and you can't dawdle:

Do you brake and finish coasting the turn in the higher gear, then try to downshift after making the turn?

Or, do you try to downshift before braking, then brake, take the turn, and accelerate in gear?

I'm not sure if I can brake and downshift at the same time because I can't blip the throttle...but I like the idea of already being in the correct gear as I leave the turn so I can accelerate right away!

Thanks guys

[BlUURZ]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Bumping this thread because it's awesome. Who's ready for 20 questions lol.

A few thoughts first:

Third week with the car, my first manual. Finally getting the hang of smooth starts after getting stuck in traffic and literally bucking the car every time I had to come to a complete stop. Learned I had to tell myself to stop thinking about "letting the clutch out" but instead "keep pressing down on the clutch, just less" and keep the spring pressure against my foot all the way up. This clutch is high! No idea how you guys work it with you heel on the ground.

I can't upshift to second for shit. Can't downshift into it either for that matter.

On to the questions:

When I start from a stop I'm obviously feathering the throttle as I let off the clutch into first. Do you do the same thing upshifting to higher gears? Or is it a more defined clutch-shift-clutch-gas?

My downshifts are quite jerky. Are you required to rev match into every gear to get them smooth? Or do you just need to let the clutch out slowly or time rpms better or something? I've actually gotten decent a rev matching down to third as I'm coming up to a stoplight, it seem pretty forgiving and I just give it a good blip and it slides right in. The rest of them not so much and I'm wondering if it's even necessary.

Turning:
Let say you're coming up to a green light to make a left moving at a good clip. You've got time to make the turn but there some oncoming traffic and you can't dawdle:

Do you brake and finish coasting the turn in the higher gear, then try to downshift after making the turn?

Or, do you try to downshift before braking, then brake, take the turn, and accelerate in gear?

I'm not sure if I can brake and downshift at the same time because I can't blip the throttle...but I like the idea of already being in the correct gear as I leave the turn so I can accelerate right away!

Thanks guys

This is funny because I've had my car for exactly 3 weeks, first stick car and have some trouble with second as well. within the last couple of days i've gotten it much smoother but still jerk a little.

Regarding the turning question i wouldn't advise coasting in a higher gear incase you need power quickly. When I approach the same situation say starting in 4th, clutch >rev match > and then while letting out the clutch slow I brake. The same applies going from 3rd to second sometimes this happens while already in the turn. I assume this is alright for the car but someone correct me if I am wrong

[Chazbo]

Your downshifts are jerky because you are pushing in the clutch and letting the rpm drop to idle before releasing the clutch. When you get it to drop in it just feels right. My advice is to work on 3rd gear rev match. Get that mastered. That is the easiest for me because most areas are 30ish and coasting to lights. When in RPM/speed are you shifting from 1st to second?

Finding the grab point: Practice letting the clutch out and letting the idle drop while giving the lightest touch of throttle. Its a grab point. It should feel like a little cradle rocking back and forth. Once you get that back and forth balance, it feels right.

For turns, I would err on the side of caution until you have the confidence of plugging that hole so to speak. You should normally be in gear always so you can accelerate if needed. I coast to stop lights when I know I am boxed in and there is not going to be some crazy event I have to experience.

You need to figure out which is the best gear to be in at a particular moment. If you are in a tight turn and the warning sign says 15, you should probably be in second instead of 3rd.

[AznKirby]

I just heel-toe everywhere I go when I need to downshift. That's something I've gotten used to. It helps in tricky situations like the one you're describing.

But if you don't have enough confidence in your shifting, just keep it at a lower gear and slow down before you turn!

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Chazbo

Your downshifts are jerky because you are pushing in the clutch and letting the rpm drop to idle before releasing the clutch. When you get it to drop in it just feels right. My advice is to work on 3rd gear rev match. Get that mastered. That is the easiest for me because most areas are 30ish and coasting to lights. When in RPM/speed are you shifting from 1st to second?

This was exactly right. I was shifting too early and too slow. I was so caught up with letting the clutch out easy that the revs were dropping low by the time I got the clutch out and the car would jerk. I've been trying to listen/feel the car and not look at the tach much but I think I'm revving to ~4000 in first now and around 2000/2500 by the time I go into second (I'm still slow to shift)

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread but there seems to be a point you can let the clutch out fast if the revs are just right and still shift smooth. I'm getting the sense now that "easy off the clutch" is just cushion for the learning curve of figuring out where these revs are (letting the syncros pick up the slack). Maybe ideal for daily driving would be somewhere in between where you to shift quick to try to hit these revs and clutch quick but gentile to pick up any slack if you're not matched *perfect* driving to work first thing in the morning.

I still have two questions tho: Do you all apply some gas right after shifting as you're letting the clutch out in gears other than first? Similar to what you do to start in first but not as slow/deliberate. Or are you steadfast clutch-shift-clutch-gas anytime you're already moving? I feel like those of you who shift into second as soon as first starts rolling would have to feather the gas as they're letting off the clutch.

Second, do you *have* to rev match as you downshift gears? I'm not talking about dumping from 6th to third or something but reasonable sequential downshifts while easing out the clutch. Is the trans/syncros built to handle this as long as you can accept a little jerk of the car?

Thanks again the more I drive the more I feel like working this shit is an art (in a good way)

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread but there seems to be a point you can let the clutch out fast if the revs are just right and still shift smooth. I'm getting the sense now that "easy off the clutch" is just cushion for the learning curve of figuring out where these revs are (letting the syncros pick up the slack).

You seem to be getting it. You want to take your time and let the clutch out easy when you're first learning. Once you get the hang of where it engages, you can speed up.

You sound like you're at the point now where you need to just drive the car and stop thinking about it. You don't want to go to the opposite extreme of slamming your foot on/off the clutch or slamming the shifter into gear, but quick, smooth movements will help you smooth out the shifts.

Originally Posted by Zeus

I still have two questions tho: Do you all apply some gas right after shifting as you're letting the clutch out in gears other than first? Similar to what you do to start in first but not as slow/deliberate. Or are you steadfast clutch-shift-clutch-gas anytime you're already moving?

You're overthinking it. When you're upshifting correctly, you'll throttle back and push the clutch pedal pretty much at the same time, shift up to the next gear, then let off the clutch and give it gas at the same time. You're at the point now where you need to stop thinking of separate left foot and right foot motions and just do both as one fluid see-saw action.

Originally Posted by Zeus

Second, do you *have* to rev match as you downshift gears?

That depends on your definition of "have to." It's possible to downshift without matching RPM by just letting the clutch burn a little as it pulls the engine up to speed, but that causes the clutch disc to wear out faster.

It's preferable to match RPM, but again, don't overthink it. You're not likely to be able to position your right foot in the exact position on the accelerator to match the RPM exactly. If you try to be that exact, by the time you hit the right number it will have already changed.

Instead, just give the gas pedal a little punch on the downshifts. When you first start doing it, you'll miss almost every time, and the shifts will be jerky. But it won't take long before you just start catching it in just the right spot. It might help you find that spot by feathering the gas a little as you downshift.

The most important thing at this point is to not think too much about what you're doing and just do it.

[Chazbo]

I agree. Forget about the synchros. Over thinking what you should be doing denies your focus on what is happening in the moment. I will give you a case in point:

I went rollerskating for the first time recently in probably 15 years. I was doing OK being as raw as fuck, and throwing caution to the wind, not even knowing how to stop but still having a blast. I was looking at the girl in front of me. I was looking at her booty gracefully turn with the greatest of ease. I crossed my skates and ate shit, bruising my ego and my body.

Practice with your car (I know you will every chance you get). After first gear starts, everything after is pretty much easy sailing. Seat time.

[RacerX]

Question: Why can't we shift out of reverse, into neutral, while coasting at slow-ish speeds (8-10mph)? I understand that reverse gear doesn't have a synchro, so I can see why we couldn't shift into reverse, but when shifting out of reverse wouldn't the teeth just slide out of one another?

For example, when I leave for work in the early morning, I like to drop the clutch at 4krpm in reverse and fly out of my garage down the driveway at tremendous speed. Then hard right on the wheel, swinging the front end around as leave the end of my driveway and slide sideways into the street. But the shifter doesn't like popping out of reverse unless I'm going pitifully slow. Real bummer this.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by RacerX

Question: Why can't we shift out of reverse, into neutral, while coasting at slow-ish speeds (8-10mph)? I understand that reverse gear doesn't have a synchro, so I can see why we couldn't shift into reverse, but when shifting out of reverse wouldn't the teeth just slide out of one another?

For example, when I leave for work in the early morning, I like to drop the clutch at 4krpm in reverse and fly out of my garage down the driveway at tremendous speed. Then hard right on the wheel, swinging the front end around as leave the end of my driveway and slide sideways into the street. But the shifter doesn't like popping out of reverse unless I'm going pitifully slow. Real bummer this.

I'm guessing it's an extra-padded safety measure. Being able to "pop out" of reverse also means you could potentially pop it back in before getting into neutral, which may or may not cause the car to explode , so better safe than sorry. I agree though, it would make departures slightly more efficient

[BRZfan]

You're a jokester of just stupid, I am not quite sure which. Hopefully a jokester although I wouldn't be surprised if you are stupid.

Originally Posted by RacerX

Question:

For example, when I leave for work in the early morning, I like to drop the clutch at 4krpm in reverse and fly out of my garage down the driveway at tremendous speed.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by RacerX

For example, when I leave for work in the early morning, I like to drop the clutch at 4krpm in reverse and fly out of my garage down the driveway at tremendous speed. Then hard right on the wheel, swinging the front end around as leave the end of my driveway and slide sideways into the street. But the shifter doesn't like popping out of reverse unless I'm going pitifully slow. Real bummer this.

I bet it makes a full on J-turn a real bitch also.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by BRZfan

You're a jokester of just stupid, I am not quite sure which. Hopefully a jokester although I wouldn't be surprised if you are stupid.

He gotta do that in order to keep up with his brother Speed bombing down the street in the morning.

[RacerX]

I'm super cereal!

[aristo]

Hi friends. I have a question related to the clutch:

How long do you guys spend (in seconds) at the clutch engagement point when shifting smoothly into first gear from a stop?

I spend about three seconds at the engagement point before fully letting go of the clutch in order to get my car going as smooth as possible.

Is that too long? It seems nearly impossible or very hard to get a smooth start without spending that extra time at the catch point.