It Gets Old Fast | Real Life: Modding a Nerf

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have owned 3 S2000s and never touched anything on them aside from tires and alignment. I feel the car is damn near perfect, the driver being the biggest variable.

The FRS just never had that visceral feel. It's fun, but the first times on track and autox in stock form with good tires, I was always like,
"Come on, really that's it?"

I understand. The S2000's handling and overall precision it has in nearly every aspect is way above what I was used to with my old 240sx projects, but, man, I've only owned the S for a few months now and I'm already extremely tempted to go FI. A supercharger pushing 340-400hp on the stock motor turns it into an extremely fast track car... Some people pull 500-700hp with turbos, but then you have to also deal with transmission problems. I think a supercharger with moderate power and a nice smooth powerband would be excellent.

I'm still hoping to grab an FR-S at some point, but hoping it reaches a higher level before then so I don't have as many problems as you and others have had...

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I understand. The S2000's handling and overall precision it has in nearly every aspect is way above what I was used to with my old 240sx projects, but, man, I've only owned the S for a few months now and I'm already extremely tempted to go FI. A supercharger pushing 340-400hp on the stock motor turns it into an extremely fast track car... Some people pull 500-700hp with turbos, but then you have to also deal with transmission problems. I think a supercharger with moderate power and a nice smooth powerband would be excellent.

I'm still hoping to grab an FR-S at some point, but hoping it reaches a higher level before then so I don't have as many problems as you and others have had...

I think the "problems" he has had have been self induced. LOVE his videos and love what he offers to this community, but he modded FAST! He also lives in an extreme climate. Not saying that explains all the problems, but I would venture to say a majority of them.

I agree with @rice_classic of having a clear goal. Mine is on the side of my refrigerator. The only think I might add onto it is FI (I am leaning toward not, though), but it really depends on a lot of factors (including having a second car for myself). When is it ever enough? If you keep chasing speed you'll never be satisfied. If you get your car to a competitive point, realize you are done other than fluids, and misc wear parts, then start focusing on yourself as a driver, I feel you will be MUCH happier, and the byproduct will be speed.

There is enough information on these forums to get a great idea of what mods to get for what activity. I have never driven in a car with most of the mods I'm planning on putting on the car, but I've seen them work and I have an order of how they will go on.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I think the "problems" he has had have been self induced. LOVE his videos and love what he offers to this community, but he modded FAST! He also lives in an extreme climate. Not saying that explains all the problems, but I would venture to say a majority of them.

I agree with @rice_classic of having a clear goal. Mine is on the side of my refrigerator. The only think I might add onto it is FI (I am leaning toward not, though), but it really depends on a lot of factors (including having a second car for myself). When is it ever enough? If you keep chasing speed you'll never be satisfied. If you get your car to a competitive point, realize you are done other than fluids, and misc wear parts, then start focusing on yourself as a driver, I feel you will be MUCH happier, and the byproduct will be speed.

There is enough information on these forums to get a great idea of what mods to get for what activity. I have never driven in a car with most of the mods I'm planning on putting on the car, but I've seen them work and I have an order of how they will go on.

Yeah, I guess it all depends on what you're trying to achieve... and how deep your pockets are, of course. haha.

I still think about building another 240 for tracking since it's so much more cost effective to make fast... but then it's also much less refined and not quite on the same level as the s2000 and FRS when it comes to handling and chassis rigidity... but then that money + selling the s2k could allow me to buy a used evo, nsx, supra, lotus elise, etc. instead.... a neverending game. haha

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Yeah, I guess it all depends on what you're trying to achieve... and how deep your pockets are, of course. haha.

I still think about building another 240 for tracking since it's so much more cost effective to make fast... but then it's also much less refined and not quite on the same level as the s2000 and FRS when it comes to handling and chassis rigidity... but then that money + selling the s2k could allow me to buy a used evo, nsx, supra, lotus elise, etc. instead.... a neverending game. haha

EXACTLY! I had a cobra before this. Didn't dump a ton in it, but dropping $6k in parts in 6 months was not making my wife happy. That and the ever-growing list of "wants" for the car had me take a step back. I was bored with it. It was my second one, so I already knew the rout I was planning on taking. Plus it was a never ending project, just like the OP's car. I literally had an "ah ha!" moment and put the car up for sale that day. Loved it, but not so much that I was willing to be broke for it.

FRS has a clear, and simple plan to make it competitive on the track, and comfortable on the street. Still awhile off before I track so the mods are done for now, but I have a clear rout that I will be taking when I finally do start tracking it.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Fluid held up no issues. DBAs were good for about another 2 hours track driving (1 hour sessions) and then the high temp paint market activated. And further driving after that was inconsistent. On the street oem pads were quickly destroyed from the rotor waviness. And by that time 850+ dollars later on pads and rotors, the BBK made more sense and cheaper on paper. Track peformance was night and day. Pedal feel consistency everything. But really f-up the pad choices for street, and wound up switching around. etc etc.

As noted in other thread, might be better off with plain-faced rotors. Next time anyway!

Now I feel like I have a setup that pseudo works, but the BBK has to come off in the winter or I am looking at a rebuild due the heavy, heavy amount of road salts.

I have driven my FD in the snow (StopTech brakes, oil cooler and all), but I have a daily (S2000) for 99% of that. Makey no sense to DD a modded street/track car through salted frozen winters if there are things on it that are so precious or delicate that they can't be exposed...

In terms of using the grooved 1521s we had a big debate about it. The fact that we spent 3 hours installing the new rotors, the argument was do we really want to throw on grooved pads that could potentially grove the new rotors out of the gate?
Not so much a big deal for street but when we get to the track, I don't want to deal with any brake feel vibration etc. I get spooked to easy.
So we stuck with the Hawks Essex sent. They are totally fine for the street, and pedal feel is about 75% improved over stock. Massive difference.

Plain-faced rotors might be better for street/track combined usage with different pads.
HPS immediately felt like crap to me, the first time I put my foot on the pedal. I re-bled the brakes because I thought there was air in the line. Initial bite on the street was awful, but I thought maybe they needed some heat. When I gave them a little heat at the track (I know, they're not track pads!), they immediately faded. Like within a lap. Even taking it stupid easy on them. Swapped OEM pads back in and they were infinitely better (and OEM s2k pads are *not* good track pads!).
In my experience, HPS are the suckiest pads ever.

In terms of oil temps I disagree, the normal operating oil temperature on this type of motor is 190-212 degrees. That's where it tends to settle. In the winter its usually a 10 minute affair to reach those temps without the oil cooler. But with the oil cooler it takes 20 minutes to reach barely 160F. And remember the oil usually starts out at roughly 35-40 degrees and is still about at 110F for the first 8 minutes or so depending on temp.
It's not the 160F that bothers me its the excessively long time the oil is spent in the cold zone, which is where the most engine wear occurs.

I think you are overly fixated on this. 0W20 synthetic oil at 110F-160F is not going to wear out your engine. Blocking off the cooler in the winter as suggested will help warm the oil up quicker, but IMO, this is a non-issue.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

The FRS just never had that visceral feel. It's fun, but the first times on track and autox in stock form with good tires, I was always like,
"Come on, really that's it?"

I am exactly opposite of you. I think the car is brilliant on an autocross course but could use some more umph for daily driving.

[doberman8u]

I would just like to put in a couple of words in appreciation to Dezoris for the amount of time/effort you have put in to sharing your experience with the various projects with the rest of us.

I think the videos come across as a reality check to those of us thinking about buying the car and throwing FI on it. I have been heavily looking at buying a FR-S for the last month and have read this forum heavily. I appreciate your realistic review of your experience - it allows me to fully understand what I am getting myself in to should I chose to supercharge. While I plan to pick the Jackson kit, I have found myself many times watching your videos and telling myself "just get this car and leave it alone".

I know I won't leave it alone, and you allow me to be fully warned.

Thanks for all the contributions.

[djmm]

I got my 86 GTS - stock and driving it around, having fun. I think you must have burned out. Should take a break from all this modding thing and just enjoy the car.

[B3yondL]

Nice write up. Really paints a picture of what the modding life can be like. 60 hour work week and then headaches at the garage? Fuck that shit bro.

As for the C7, go for it. That's one car that literally has it all in stock form. Straight line speed and handling that rivals 100k+ euro stuff. I'm not a Vette guy either but am considering that as well. I kinda want to see more of the FT1 Supra first though, but if it doesn't come out in manual, C7 for me.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by djmm

I got my 86 GTS - stock and driving it around, having fun. I think you must have burned out. Should take a break from all this modding thing and just enjoy the car.

The plan this year is to drive it and try to enjoy all the work. See where it goes from there.

Originally Posted by B3yondL

Nice write up. Really paints a picture of what the modding life can be like. 60 hour work week and then headaches at the garage? Fuck that shit bro.

As for the C7, go for it. That's one car that literally has it all in stock form. Straight line speed and handling that rivals 100k+ euro stuff. I'm not a Vette guy either but am considering that as well. I kinda want to see more of the FT1 Supra first though, but if it doesn't come out in manual, C7 for me.

I don't have much faith in the Japanese anymore, their core values have drastically shifted much like many of the super cars towards electronics and battery packs. Been there done that, prefer a more analog car.

Going to give the C7 2 years and see what problems pop up.

Originally Posted by doberman8u

I would just like to put in a couple of words in appreciation to Dezoris for the amount of time/effort you have put in to sharing your experience with the various projects with the rest of us.

I think the videos come across as a reality check to those of us thinking about buying the car and throwing FI on it. I have been heavily looking at buying a FR-S for the last month and have read this forum heavily. I appreciate your realistic review of your experience - it allows me to fully understand what I am getting myself in to should I chose to supercharge. While I plan to pick the Jackson kit, I have found myself many times watching your videos and telling myself "just get this car and leave it alone".

I know I won't leave it alone, and you allow me to be fully warned.

Thanks for all the contributions.

Thanks for following all of it. I am sure 90% of the FRS and BRZ on the street are modified. Even if its shift knobs and LEDs, I have yet to see any that are bone stock in my area. And I have to say it's ok, the car is like a Lego set designed to be ****ed with. I just hope that the videos and stories show this sh*t aint Hollywood. It's a money pit that has a ton of fine print.

Modifying this car is like dating a Kardashian, interesting for about a week, and then it's enough drama to leave you limp for years.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I went through this about a decade ago. Lots of money in a street car that became a time/money pit and for what? I was tracking it and it was fast but I didn't have a clear goal, a clear reason for the money being spent. Every track day I went to I found a new target to chase that was completely arbitrary. At first it was another Honda, then a Sentra SE-R, then an M3 and so on. I was adding intake manifolds, ecus, straight pipes, stickier rubber, LSD's, big brakes.. Like drag racing an 18 second car. It's pretty cost effective to get it to 15's or 14's but going from 14's to 12's is twice as expensive!

The money pit has no bottom without specific goals.

If I was a 1 car person and I wanted to modify it, knowing what I know now, I would sit down draw up a completion plan. The "plan" will answer these questions: What's my goal? How will I know I'm done and what does finished look like? The rest of it is all about getting there in the easiest, most reliable and cost effective manner.

Another way of asking the question: How do I get "done" reliably, affordably and safely while maximizing enjoyment?

I have applied this approach to my racing pursuits and it has worked out quite well.

I always appreciate your posts.
The goal was simple, but maybe not as targeted as you said and thats where we went off.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I don't have much faith in the Japanese anymore, their core values have drastically shifted much like many of the super cars towards electronics and battery packs. Been there done that, prefer a more analog car.

Going to give the C7 2 years and see what problems pop up.

I assume you're talking about build quality (your first video seemed to be at least 30% about the build quality) and some things that appear under-engineerd (i.e. DI failure, cam position issue, chirping)? Care to elaborate a little bit on what you felt their core values used to be and where they have shifted?

[f0rge]

I've always stood by this saying:

"If you want a fast car, buy a fast car."

I've been down this road before and I fully agree it's just not worth it. Driving at WOT spending more time looking at your Knock gauge than the road, just waiting for something to blow up. Constant fixes and workarounds, car broken almost as often as it works.

I want a car to drive it, now I don't touch the engines in my cars. I lower them cause I like the look and they usually get an exhaust, that's pretty much it.

[evomike]

have you tracked a car before? the brake issue could be driver error there is no reason a car this light would eat brakes up like that.