Borla UEL Header & Overpipe/Frontpipe

[dirtymax]

yes I'm sure you could pick up an extra 1 hp with a smoother collector on a UEL Borla header

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

He's a Borla fanboy for life. You can't sway him.

I'll put my JDL UEL and full exhaust up against this header and full exhaust any day. You will see which one comes out on top because of proper collector engineering.

Why do you think Nameless ended up with a pointy sharp collector similar to JDL as well? Granted they both aren't the same header as they have different power ranges because of EL vs UEL, but the one similar characteristic is the merge collector.

Hello Pot, how are things at the JDL fan club? I don't think that anyone questions the fact that a nicely formed merge collector such as that used on the JDL header is preferable to a dump collector like that used by Borla, Revworks, Openflash, Tsudo, DC Sport, etc. but most of us, yourself excluded of course, are smart enough to realize that it makes very little difference overall.

[FRS_FIEND]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

Don't forget the collector was also created by the top collector welder in the world. So glad I didn't go with Borla... lol. Bunch of corporate robots that don't even know their own products.

thats just a terrible example. my borla collector looked perfect. you guys act as if all companies make every single part perfect. sometimes there are mess ups. yes quality control should have caught that specific header and ended it. i just find it funny that whenever someone brings up this topic on borla headers THEY ALL USE THEE SAME EXACT PHOTO LOL.

[FR-S Matt]

Not even worth arguing this when there's plenty of dynos showing the difference, yet people fail to read the details when comparing a product. Idiots will be idiots. I'll leave it at that.

[Gt86_nick]

Originally Posted by lindsay@borla

Hi jjkerr626,

Our headers do NOT remove the factory catalytic converters. While a CEL is possible at any given time, you should not expect one from the installation of our parts. That said, if you do proceed to install our header (part #17284) with a tune, you will usually find more power from our parts than without.

http://www.borla.com/products/frs_br...rt__17284.html

I like how they haven't replied after this despite being tagged and quoted several times

[dirtymax]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

Not even worth arguing this when there's plenty of dynos showing the difference, yet people fail to read the details when comparing a product. Idiots will be idiots. I'll leave it at that.

Headers just move the power around and the dyno charts show it. Your JDL has more top end and the Borla has more mid range where the car is severely lacking.

[ATL BRZ]

Has everyone forgot that a Borla representative sponsoring this forum has NO IDEA what they are talking about regarding their own products????

Everyone knows that Borla products are terrible quality but let's not forget the hilarious misinformation that @lindsay@borla has tried to give in this thread. The fact that this person is presumably being paid to do this is mind-boggling.

Originally Posted by FRS-Jonathan

What's funny is the Dyno showing more torque on the borla but meh who pays attn to that stuff XD

Originally Posted by dirtymax

Headers just move the power around and the dyno charts show it. Your JDL has more top end and the Borla has more mid range where the car is severely lacking.

Here we go again...

I still haven't seen a Borla header produce a better midrange torque curve while n/a than a JDL UEL: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=504

Thats an old dyno too. Now 200whp n/a is being achieved with pump gas tunes.

If you're referencing this header shootout thread and concluding that the Borla has a better midrange than the JDL then you must be forgetting the JDL UEL equipped car had a STOCK headerback and the other cars had aftermarket exhaust systems for those dynos. Pair a headerback with a JDL UEL header and it will produce better gains everywhere than a Borla header with the same headerback.

Still don't believe that the better designed, more efficient collector and bigger ID runners that JDL headers have make a difference? Help yourself to some science:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NekTRPx68zs"]Header Collector Science - YouTube[/ame]


It's obvious that is no way the ghastly collector and smaller ID runners in the Borla header will outperform the JDL, ANYWHERE in the powerband. The dyno "shootouts" so far comparing the two have all been flawed with different cars and different exhaust setups which greatly skew the results.


If you're lucky enough to get a Borla header with flanges that aren't warped, flex joints that don't rattle, and a collector that wasn't welded together by a third grader, well good for you, but please don't lie to yourself by saying that it's producing more power/torque anywhere than the JDL offering. That's just wrong.

[dirtymax]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Here we go again...

I still haven't seen a Borla header produce a better midrange torque curve while n/a than a JDL UEL: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=504

Thats an old dyno too. Now 200whp n/a is being achieved with pump gas tunes.

If you're referencing this header shootout thread and concluding that the Borla has a better midrange than the JDL then you must be forgetting the JDL UEL equipped car had a STOCK headerback and the other cars had aftermarket exhaust systems for those dynos. Pair a headerback with a JDL UEL header and it will produce better gains everywhere than a Borla header with the same headerback.

Still don't believe that the better designed, more efficient collector and bigger ID runners that JDL headers have make a difference? Help yourself to some science:

It's obvious that is no way the ghastly collector and smaller ID runners in the Borla header will outperform the JDL, ANYWHERE in the powerband. The dyno "shootouts" so far comparing the two have all been flawed with different cars and different exhaust setups which greatly skew the results.


If you're lucky enough to get a Borla header with flanges that aren't warped, flex joints that don't rattle, and a collector that wasn't welded together by a third grader, well good for you, but please don't lie to yourself by saying that it's producing more power/torque anywhere than the JDL offering. That's just wrong.

ok so your little science video just proved that even the "ghastly" borla collector will scavenge exhaust. And no bigger is not always better with exhaust pipe, especially ID runners. A few hp here or there is just splitting hairs anyway. Do what you want with your money but to say the JDLs are soooo much better is kind of ridiculous

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by dirtymax

ok so your little science video just proved that even the "ghastly" borla collector will scavenge exhaust.

Yep, it will scavenge much less efficiently and with a greater amount of turbulence than a properly designed collector.

Originally Posted by dirtymax

And no bigger is not always better with exhaust pipe, especially ID runners. A few hp here or there is just splitting hairs anyway. Do what you want with your money but to say the JDLs are soooo much better is kind of ridiculous

Numbers aren't everything. Sure the gains are similar, with the JDL having an edge everywhere, but my money went to JDL mostly because of the overall quality of their products which is SOOO much better than Borla's. I know this first hand because I had three different Borla headers via their warranty process and they failed each time to deliver a product worth installing on my car. Their quality control is THAT BAD that I never felt comfortable installing any of them because of warped flanges. I had to give up and get a refund and move on to a JDL header which also has a lifetime warranty but with materials and quality control that are substantially better on top of the more efficient design.

My JDL header will outlast my car. Borla headers have frequently been warrantied for warped flanges, weld failures and defects causing bad noises left and right.


I love how a Borla representative is responsible for completely derailing the OP's thread with misinformation about their own products. Speaks volumes about the company as a whole.

[jpit]

"Sure the gains are similar, with the JDL having an edge everywhere"


Everywhere except between 3000 and 5800 in both Torque and HP.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by jpit

"Sure the gains are similar, with the JDL having an edge everywhere"


Everywhere except between 3000 and 5800 in both Torque and HP.

Don't just look at the dynos in that "shootout" without reading any of the important details about each car's setup...

That exception your referring to was due to that Borla UEL equipped car in that particular dyno test having a full aftermarket exhaust, where the JDL equipped car had the STOCK headerback which is considerably more restrictive. Show me an apples to apples comparison on the same car with the same headerback equipped and you'll see the JDL outperform the Borla everywhere, I assure you. There is no such comparison available, and the tuner who performed these tests even openly admits in that thread that the results are skewed for those very reasons.

[jpit]

I've read that shootout and am familiar with Bob's work but you are the one that said that the JDL has the edge everywhere. What empirical evidence are you quoting?

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by jpit

I've read that shootout and am familiar with Bob's work but you are the one that said that the JDL has the edge everywhere. What empirical evidence are you quoting?

Drift Office Borla UEL tuned 92 octane pump gas dyno:

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

Hey all, thought I'd share our findings with our recent calibration of a customer's setup with a production Borla UEL header on his FRS.

First, a quick re-hash : typical 6MT baseline @ 165-ish, stock wheels, stock intake, ARK Exhaust running 92 Octane. I won't bore you with videos on this one since there's plenty of BRZ / FRS Borla UEL videos on YouTube, so here's the nitty-gritty...

4th Gear, before and after

JDL UEL tuned 92 octane pump gas dyno with Perrin CAI, Nameless HFC front pipe and Axleback

Originally Posted by stockysnail

Car tuned with BRZEdit at PRE here in Portland by Bobby

Two different cars, two different dynos, two different tuning platforms, but both are pump gas with additional exhaust modifications. When you focus on the area under the curve you'll see what I'm talking about.

The JDL UEL's midrange torque curve gets even fatter with E85. Top dyno has a full Perrin unresonated exhaust, Perrin CAI, Moto-East E85 tune with EcuTek. Bottom is stock tune catback only.

[zooki]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you comparing the dyno chart from the Borla header to the dyno chart from the JDL header that's uncorrected for weather and shows a density altitude of 916 feet below sea level? Or am I looking at that wrong? I seem to remember the thread that JDL chart came from, and the OP mentioned that the tuner even said the weather was probably good for +20 HP in itself.