2013 Scion FR-S Priced at $24,200 ($24,930 after destination)

[gaveup]

More than 2 seats =\= sports car.

End of debate, carry along.

[ManOfStiehl]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

I was going to reply in a lengthier sincerity until I read your 2nd paragraph. First of all, I'm calling them "Sports Cars", the "pure" thing is a marketing scheme at best. Secondly, I'm absolutely sorry, but if you can't have fun in a car that goes 0-60 in less than 3sec, that changes directions sharply, that pulls incredible g's, that has fantastic brakes, that it's engine is built in a vault basically, and axles/suspension is assembled loaded, nitrogen filled from the factory, and it's wheels have special burrs on them to ensure the tires don't slip, then there's something wrong with you. I don't care how incredibly well programmed it is to make a hamfist look like a pro, it's performance is incredible. It may be 4x's the cost of a FR-S, but it's performance is many more times greater, and it has a nicer interior to boot.

......

Ridiculous at best... bro. A Boss will slaughter this car on any track or back road, even a GT. The GT-R is a Super Car slayer, it doesn't matter if it's AWD and has electro-nannies, it's performance merits the class of "Sports Car". A 911's performance is beyond the 86 as well, even the Boxster and Cayman. And there's nothing wrong with the 86 being "Sporty", it's just not a "Sports Car" that others are touting it is while said other cars are not. Period.

A sports car is what you make of it. Unless your last name is Webster and you write dictionaries for a living, let us enjoy our responsive cars with no electronannies while you enjoy your 4-tire smoking Evo. If we wanted an Evo, GT-R, Boss or 911 we would be lusting over them instead. Turns out we don't, so don't try to belittle us by saying the sports car we've come to love isn't a sports car because it isn't an overpriced Gran Turismo 5 simulator.

If power and extreme performance is what makes a sports car, then by your definition a Camry V6 is a sports car while a Ferrari 308 is not. Your logic is flawed.

[russv]

When I talked to the Scion rep about a month ago he was suggesting a price of $25,950 for the automatic. Which I thought was very fair. Now with the announced price being$25,300 I can get more goodies (fog lights).

[Draco-REX]

Considering how open Toyota and Subaru have been about the goals for this car, I'm just amazed at how many people are so surprised by the end result. From day #1 this car was going to be more Miata than Supra. There are plenty of heavy, big-power cars out there for everyone that doesn't understand that.


The Toybaru/Subiyota test:
If you can understand how a 70hp, RWD car with an open LSD can be a fun car to drive, then the FR-S/BRZ is a car for you.

If you can't conceive of how a car with less than 100hp can possibly be enjoyable, then it's time to look elsewhere. Come back if/when the turbo/supercharged versions come out. But don't be disappointed if they don't quite hit 300hp.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DieDriving

So toyota is targeting younger generation with this car but the base manual coming out firing at 25K....if you get an AT or tag on any extra it will be easily hit 27-28K not including tax....how many college students or recent grads can afford this kind of price? It better comes w/ BeSpoke and spoiler standard or this is over price....working people like me can afford it but doesn't mean I'll buy it....

Perception
The "Brand" Scion target the college kids with affordable, dependable cars.

Reality
No one said the FR-S was to be targeted at the same college kids (could be "I graduated from college and have a career now" kids)

Reality
The mean age of a Scion owner is 30+years old.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by gaveup

More than 2 seats =\= sports car.

End of debate, carry along.

if you want to use that logic then anything with more than 1 seat is not a sports car either

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by gaveup

More than 2 seats =\= sports car.

End of debate, carry along.

Maybe not. OK, I'll step into this. All quasi-official definitions of a sports car that I have seen or can find state "usually 2 seats" but also include the 2+2 configuration in the category, and state the back seat is best for small children or carrying gear. As a check, I did a quick search "Definition of Sports Car", yep, that's pretty much what they all say.

Frankly, I don't care if the FRS is considered a sports car, they can call it a minivan if they want. If the driving experience turns out to be what I expect (Gen1 MR2 go-cart with a back-seat), I'm all good. I paid $12K (MSRP) for my MR2 in 1985 when it was new, and it was worth every penny. I'm guessing that about twice that much 22 years later is about fair for this car whether its a sporty car, a sports car or a weinermobile.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

LOL he will.

LOL he didn't.

Originally Posted by ManOfStiehl

A sports car is what you make of it. Unless your last name is Webster and you write dictionaries for a living, let us enjoy our responsive cars with no electronannies while you enjoy your 4-tire smoking Evo. If we wanted an Evo, GT-R, Boss or 911 we would be lusting over them instead. Turns out we don't, so don't try to belittle us by saying the sports car we've come to love isn't a sports car because it isn't an overpriced Gran Turismo 5 simulator.

If power and extreme performance is what makes a sports car, then by your definition a Camry V6 is a sports car while a Ferrari 308 is not. Your logic is flawed.

I'm just joining in the debate, which is what forums are for, discussing. I jumped into the discussion with others trying to put down other cars, so yeah. And the "overpriced simulator" thing is just a cheap put down which you're saying I'm doing while leaving others alone. It goes both ways.

A 308 is from a different era, and that's an Exotic anyways, so that analogy is moot. I spoke about one of my favorite cars ever, the MKIV Supra, saying it's a sports car, what's up?

Face it. I joined a convo just like you are. I was interested in this car thinking Toyota was going back to it's glory days, but it didn't turn out that way. I thought I'd at least go with it as a fun and efficient DD-Beater, but I won't at that price, as they priced it too high for what you get. Deal.

Originally Posted by fatoni

i agree with most of that except you really do need to be careful with some miatas. i know the evo isnt overweight or an econobox. its an amazing piece of technology but its not uncommon for miatas to pull 1.3g in steady state cornering.

Right, I know about tuning and modding, and what they're capable of. Just like that Hotchkis 7th gen celica which was wicked. This one was stock (my car was 2 months old and not touched yet) but he fell in for the hype and it didn't work out too well for him. That's all.

[86fanatic]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

This is fanboyism at it's finest to even say "the FR-S is fun to drive, while the GT-R isn't as much".

You are completely missing my point and putting a bunch of inflammatory/extreme words in my mouth. My point was the GTR was designed from the ground up to make fast lap times easy, and the 86 was designed from the ground up to make lap times fun regardless of speed. I never said the GTR is more or less fun to drive, just it was designed with different parameters. Yes, it is much faster, but it is no more or less a sports car then the 86.

If anything your post reeks of being a GTR fan boy.

Edit: I would also question whether a sports car would really come with standard leather seats and navigation. In my opinion the GTR is trying too hard to be a luxury car to compete with the 911 to be considered a proper sports car.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

You are completely missing my point and putting a bunch of inflammatory/extreme words in my mouth. My point was the GTR was designed from the ground up to make fast lap times easy, and the 86 was designed from the ground up to make lap times fun regardless of speed. I never said the GTR is more or less fun to drive, just it was designed with different parameters. Yes, it is much faster, but it is no more or less a sports car then the 86.

If anything your post reeks of being a GTR fan boy.

Edit: I would also question whether a sports car would really come with standard leather seats and navigation. In my opinion the GTR is trying too hard to be a luxury car to compete with the 911 to be considered a proper sports car.

No, I'm an auto enthusiast. And when a car performs, I notice and respect it. And the GT-R is on Super Car levels of performance. And just because a GT-R has Standard Leather and Nav makes it so you can't consider it a proper sports car? Really? It's numbers will disprove you instantly. When the 86 tests come out and we all see where it stands, we'll discuss this sports car thing again. Or, when Toyota and Suby unveil the inevitable FI/more powerful model with higher end suspension, and the tunes of those who can afford it change. You might as well call me a Supra, MR2, Mustang Boss, Elise/Exige, and Porsche fanboy while you're at it, since I mentioned them as well. Right now, IMHO, it's a "Sporty Car", just like the GC.

[koyv90]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

Hate to break it to you but the gc is definitely a sports car. The s4 is a sports sedan and does hit a different demographic, but the gc, v6 mustang, etc are all sports cars that are direct competition for the frs and brz.

Perhaps it is you that is missing the point. Quit spending so much effort trying to hold this car up on this pedestal you've created and take a step back and be objective.

In the end, nearly all the buyers of this car aren't going to be able to notice any of the jandling differences between this car and a 370z or gc during anything but on track driving which a vast majority of these cars will never see.

thank you someone got my point

[Snoopyalien24]

Just heard this - and its kinda true

"15 years ago a comparably equipped 240SX was $22k. This ain't as cheap as some of you hoped, but let's keep it in perspective, people."

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

...Reality
The mean age of a Scion owner is 30+years old.

Backed up by observation. I commute 40 miles in Atlanta Metro traffic (one way) every day to work so I get to do a lot of "who owns what" looking around. My unscientific survey of owners does not show much difference between Scion drivers and any other brand. For that matter, I see very few Scions that are "tricked out" as much as I do Civics and F150s.

Maybe its a Southern thing..

[mankarn86]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

LOL he didn't.

On a tight enough track, mods aside the miata will destroy a heavier awd vehicle. The corner must have not been tight enough that power was a factor.

And the GT86 will 100% be more fun than a GTR. I personally know a GTR owner and he hates the car. ZERO driver involvement.

If you about hp, track times and numbers, this car (similar concept to a miata) is not for you. But the end of the day, the miata or GT86 or whatever other lightweight RWD car will put a bigger smile on your face.