fwd vs rwd in the snow

[FReSh]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

3. IMO RWD might be a little better than FWD as far as correcting slides since you can use your throttle as opposed to a hand brake in certain situations.

You mean carrying slides further... FWD will be infinitely better for correcting them. For example: You get the car sliding and it gets to the point where you counter steer until you hit lock on the steering wheel, and the car is still rotating further...

In a RWD car, you push the clutch in (or should have already by this point...) and start praying that the rear tires start to catch traction; or you steer into it and loop the car, hoping to stay on the road in the process.

The nice thing about FWD in such a situation is that the rear tires are already rotating freely, searching for traction. More importantly though, you can mash the throttle which will straighten the car right out. I use this technique when e-brake drifting my accord with my friends on the back roads where I'm from. It lets me throw the car into the corner waaaay too sideways and still prevents me from spinning out.

[stock]

Originally Posted by 993Fan

Best 2wd: rear-engine, rear-drive...

MR2 Mk1 has been my winter beater. Jacked up the height a bit, put on soft springs and winter tires. Best 2WD ever.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by jarviz

then floor it. you left out the most crucial part

No..careful clutch/throttle input and possibly starting in second gear would be beneficial.

[mid_life_crisis]

I've been driving for decades, FWD and RWD.
Assuming you aren't driving like an idiot, and both are in equal condition and set up with comparable tires, there is no comparison.
Having the weight of the motor directly over the driving/steering/braking wheels is a huge advantage.
Having said that, there is almost nothing more fun than a front engine RWD in an empty snow covered parking lot.

[CatDaddysBBQ]

My fr-s is terrific when moving in the snow (turning, braking, drifting). It's the starting to move bit that is tricky...

I didn't buy snow tires because it really did well overall with the Bridgestone all seasons. Not starting easily isn't really a safety issue, and it did the other stuff well enough not to drop a grand or more on a sep. setup.

I do agree about the rwd being better at some things, but there is no way it would ever be as good as my last car - MKV GTi with snow tires. That thing was a beast in the snow. So much front end grip you could be in 3" of snow, turn in hard on the gas and it would pull in so well, the back would go out a bit. It was incredible.

But in an empty parking lot or deserted back road, I can't say enough how fun the frs has been every day this winter! Love it.

[86main]

Fwd in snow definitely helps you travel better in snow. If you think about the physics of where the wheels get power, clearly the fwd will be easier to drive on, able to get more control

[JohnJuan]

Originally Posted by 86main

Fwd in snow definitely helps you travel better in snow. If you think about the physics of where the wheels get power, clearly the fwd will be easier to drive on, able to get more control

Please, describe the physics to us.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by JohnJuan

Please, describe the physics to us.

Haha I am with you on this one.

Lets put breaking, steering and power all to the same 2 wheels and then claim it is inherently better in the snow.

[Model Citizen]

Have driven the frz in every snowstorm this season (snow tires).

Its been goddamn fantastic, the rear was a bit loose on stock suspension, but never became a legitimate issue since the front tires always maintained traction and correcting the rear was always predictable wether tc was on or off.

Most importantly, its been fun as hell.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by FReSh

You mean carrying slides further... FWD will be infinitely better for correcting them. For example: You get the car sliding and it gets to the point where you counter steer until you hit lock on the steering wheel, and the car is still rotating further...

In a RWD car, you push the clutch in (or should have already by this point...) and start praying that the rear tires start to catch traction; or you steer into it and loop the car, hoping to stay on the road in the process.

The nice thing about FWD in such a situation is that the rear tires are already rotating freely, searching for traction. More importantly though, you can mash the throttle which will straighten the car right out. I use this technique when e-brake drifting my accord with my friends on the back roads where I'm from. It lets me throw the car into the corner waaaay too sideways and still prevents me from spinning out.

When a front wheel car spins, it REALLY spins. I have never ditched any of my rear wheel drive cars in winter (besides drifting sessions....) but so many people I know love to spin their front wheel drive cars into ditches because they cannot correct the spin easily.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by JohnJuan

Please, describe the physics to us.

The most basic physics are that the great majority of cars on the market are front engine, and have the majority of their weight on the front axle. Therefore, making the front wheels the driving wheels will help the car have the maximum possible traction (aside from all wheel drive), simply because they have more weight on them.

In addition, in a slow acceleration situation (or climbing a hill), a front wheel drive car that starts to slide (assuming the driver steers into the slide properly) will continue to have the front wheels pulling the car in the desired direction, and the rear wheels sole purpose will be to attempt to bring the back end back in. Because this is putting a pretty low demand on the rear tires relative to the fronts, the majority of the time, this will result in the back end following the front end fairly nicely (now, if you're going way too fast, and the back end is coming out due to momentum, you might be screwed, which is why I specified slow acceleration. No drivetrain will save you if you drive like an idiot in the snow, which is shown quite clearly by the number of AWD SUVs that I see in the ditch every time it snows around here...).

In a rear wheel drive car slowly accelerating or climbing a hill, if the rear starts to slide out, even if the driver is countersteering, there's relatively little corrective force to bring the back end back in line. This is why you'll sometimes see rear wheel drive cars "crabbing" up a hill that they can barely make it up, with the front wheels countersteering and the whole car basically climbing the hill diagonally. If the hill is slightly steeper, or if the road has any side to side angle, the rear wheel drive car may have no option other than to have the rear end continue to step out, possibly sliding into a ditch. A front wheel drive car may be unable to move in similar circumstances (though it should do slightly better, due to the front weight bias of most cars), but it will at least tend to sit in place with the wheels spinning, rather than slide sideways off the road.

All of that having been said, tires do make the largest difference. I'd take a RWD car on good snow tires over an AWD car on summer tires any day for snow driving.

[Takumi788]

I hated driving my 93 MX6 in the snow. I have driven an FC3S Rx7 and a 240sx in the winter with little problem. I have limited snow driving in the FRS but the twins seem to be a little more difficult to drive in the snow. Snow tires and a little weight in the rear would go a long way.

My favorite winter car was a 1990 Volvo 940 wagon with snow tires....rwd and heavy.

[Sirsimon]

Like lots of you, I've extensively driven FWD, AWD, RWD, and 4WD cars in the snow.

All of them are capable of being driven competently in the snow. The obvious factors are having a mindful, cautious driver, and your tires.

As long as you drive appropriately for the conditions and you have proper tires for the road conditions, you will be fine. The next worry becomes other people on the road, who don't know what they are doing.

I got my 86 about a week before a big (for Portland) snowstorm. We had well over 8" on the ground in the valley, and anywhere with elevation got more. Before you laugh, consider that we have next to no snowplows. I'd way rather spend an entire winter driving in snow country (where I grew up) than spend a few days driving in a location that is unprepared for snow, but I digress. By the second day, the only people out were in the almighty SUV (most on stock tires, looking smug) and a few Subies. I have 3 separate people scream obscenities at me for driving my 86 (on Blizzaks) in the snow. It was funny.

The car performed beautifully, and was a lot of fun to drive. Did I have to be careful? Hell yes. But the only real issues were when the snow got so deep that it was well above my ground clearance, and the fact that ice built up 10-12" boulders on every manhole cover (again, next to no snowplowing), making for an impromptu autocross course. :-)

[Gilwith1l]

I had a fox mustang that weighed 2800lb. Had 3" rims on the front and cheopo all seasons from pep boys and drove through the snow with no problems