What control options do you always drive at? (Manual)

[AlanLGuy]

[quote=FLYFISHR;1622448][QUOTE=AlanLGuy;1622364] Frankly, I can of zero situations where VSC or TC could negatively affect your ability to avoid an accident.

I've never had TC on any of my RWD's (all I have owned for40 Years) so the first time when I was in slippery conditions and making a lefthand turn at traffic lights I was nearly caught out by the TC applying thebrakes and slowing me down in front of oncoming traffic. Scared the hell out ofme. Have driven with TC off ever since when in snowy conditions, preferring myright foot for that job. I have learned that with the nannies on you have toallow for them by looking for bigger breaks in the traffic flow than I haveever been used too. It could just be me but I have always enjoyed driving inthe winter.

Hmm that's actually a good point. My girlfriends cobalt has the most unforgiving traction control ever and she had a set of crap all season on last winter. She tried to make a right turn into our apartment complex which has just the slightest incline and was covered with a thin layer of snow. The TC cut the throttle completely and she just rolled right back into the street. Luckily no oncoming traffic. .

The real issue was that she was driving in conditions that her tires were not suited for. Had she NOT had traction control she likely would have been able to floor it and make it up the ramp despite the wheel spin. My opinion is that those systems generally do more help than harm.

I have been in situations where I needed to floor it and the VSC cuts the throttle and/applies the brakes at a less than desirable time BUT had I left myself more space or been a little more patient I wouldn't have needed to push the car past it's available traction.

Just like learning at what point you lose traction in a car without TC you quickly learn at what point the computer will kick in and "protect" you from yourself. Again, I'd rather have the computer there to save me in the situations where I guessed incorrectly. Besides, it's a lot easier for me to admit the shortcomings of a machine than admitting my own shortcomings as a driver :P

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

How dense are you? Stock tires (unless you have the Bridgestones) are fucking SUMMER tires.

Go crash into a pole, I'm out. Deuces.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

[FLYFISHR]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

I have been in situations where I needed to floor it and the VSC cuts the throttle and/applies the brakes at a less than desirable time :P

I have seen this time and time again with expensive cars that have TC. They are unable to make it up a road with the slightest grade during a snow event as they end up going slower and slower only to be passed by old beaters with tires just a spinning. TC should be relabelled as "SlipControl" as it doesn't increase traction like the majority of drivers assume but just stops the tires from slipping.

[JS + BRZ]

For street:

If I don't feel lazy, I pressed down the tc button to turn stuff off.

If I'm feeling lazy, I just press the VSC to put the sport on.

For track:

pedal dance

[Jive Turkey]

sorry but if you think summer tires are okay below 50* let alone in wet/cold/freezing. snow conditions any kind of credibility you may have is gone, you said it yourself it just snaps...had you had atleast all seasons you'd be okay.

not saying you are a bad driver, but from the facts you stated, it would leave one to believe that you're not as experienced as you say, because experienced drivers don't risk it in snow on craptastic summer tires.

[Gilwith1l]

I always drive with all the nannies off .unless its snowing then I don't drive it at all

[chas3wba0]

Keep all systems on unless you're in an environment where you can safely lose control of the car without hitting anything or anyone

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

sorry but if you think summer tires are okay below 50* let alone in wet/cold/freezing. snow conditions any kind of credibility you may have is gone, you said it yourself it just snaps...had you had atleast all seasons you'd be okay.

not saying you are a bad driver, but from the facts you stated, it would leave one to believe that you're not as experienced as you say, because experienced drivers don't risk it in snow on craptastic summer tires.

That is exactly the biggest point I was trying to communicate.

I knew it was questionable.
I tested the car in the three blocks it took to get to the main thoroughfare and everything was fine.
It was when I abruptly encountered a slightly colder stretch of road that the tires, and the car should NOT have been on the road.

Would I have made it to the store 2 miles away with winter tires on the BRZ? Absolutely.
Would I have made it to the store with the exact same tires on my Passat TDI? Absolutely.

I was commenting on how unforgiving this car is once you cross the threshold. Very much like a 280ZX or a Supra. WOW what a surprise!
(I sold my last Supra and bought a Solara because I had to commute ~60 mi/day in Colorado.)

WITH the nannies on, it is very difficult to get the car in a dangerous situation in daily driving and using common sense (such as NOT driving in the snow with summer tires).

In my defense - the weahter that day was 50 degrees and sunny.
Then 3-4 inches of snow. We dont usually encounter freezing conditions within 8 hours of working outside in a tee shirt.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by stugray

I have lived and driven in snow my entire life and NEVER ONCE changed summer to winter tires.

All this means is that you're lucky to be alive. Driving on summers in the snow is fucking retarded. Just because you've gotten to the store in your Passat in snow on summers in the past under ideal conditions doesn't mean that you wouldn't be fucked in the Passat if there'd been an emergency situation where you'd needed grip.

Also how you can say "the weather doesn't usually change quickly in Colorado" is beyond me: I lived there for four years and got shit on by the weather within the first few months of driving there... snow in early October. I was still on summers and made the mistake of going out during a break in the weather. By the time I got back to my car it was snowing again and I slid off the side of the road while trying to limp home. I got lucky: all that was damaged was my splitter and my pride. I went onto Blizzaks immediately afterwards and always swapped the car over to winter tyres before the first snowfall after that. Snows didn't come off until mid-May, either. It's pretty common from the weather to go from beach weather to snow within a few hours.

[Model Citizen]

Even with snow tires (new ws70, no weight in back) this car was tail happy (frs).

Going to kwv3 with the springs swapped f/r made a massive difference.

Driving this car on summer tires in the winter is a worse idea than fucking magic Johnson bareback.

That all said I drive in the real world with other drivers and laws, I don't live in drift king world. So 99% of the time tc stays on because I'm not driving like enough of a chubby cock for tc to matter.

Though when playing in snow or at an event it will be disabled. It also is disabled when the roads are terrible in an area with numerous intersections, don't need tc cutting throttle when trying to get through before getting plastered by an oncoming car.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by stugray

I have lived and driven in snow my entire life and NEVER ONCE changed summer to winter tires.
So "Same tires summer & winter: This car is more tail happy than Supras, 280ZX, Porsches, Corvette, Camaro, GMC Typhoon, pickups, RVs, midengine, rear engine, VWs, diesels, toyota camrys" Happy!

My guess is that this means one of two things:

1) You never (or almost never) drove in comparably slippery conditions in the other cars, and if you did on rare occasion, you got lucky
2) The other cars came with tires that were better in the snow than the tires the came on the BRZ (very possible)

Sure, the BRZ/FRS are tail-happy, I won't argue that. However, so are a great many of the other cars you mentioned, and honestly, I wouldn't even drive a front-engine, all wheel drive car with the best AWD system made in the snow if all I have are summer tires. The grip level is simply too low.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

All this means is that you're lucky to be alive. Driving on summers in the snow is fucking retarded

I never said that. I have always had all season tires. Never changed in summer or winter - same tire.
This is the first car I have ever had that summer specific tires on it.

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Also how you can say "the weather doesn't usually change quickly in Colorado" is beyond me: .

I was born in Aspen and have lived here all my life.
I have rarely seen it go from 65 and sunny to 25 and ice on the streets in less than 5 hours. Snow on the roads sure, but not ice.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by stugray

I was born in Aspen and have lived here all my life.
I have rarely seen it go from 65 and sunny to 25 and ice on the streets in less than 5 hours. Snow on the roads sure, but not ice.

Really? I live in Boulder, and I can't count how many times that has happened. I'm not as familiar with the weather in Aspen, admittedly, but I would have thought that it would happen all the time up there too. That's why in the winter, I religiously check the weather forecast each morning before I leave for work, and if there's any chance at all of snow even mentioned in the forecast, I take the Outback on Blizzaks. I've had one harrowing experience with Pilot Super Sports in the snow (under similar conditions - it had been nice enough when I left), and I never want to repeat that experience again. I will admit, I'm thinking of switching the Blizzaks off of my Outback in the next couple of weeks, but my other tires for that car are still capable all-seasons (and I don't want to wear the Blizzaks out with 300+ miles per weekend of highway driving when it's 50 degrees out).

P.S. - I'm supremely jealous right now. I've wanted to ski Aspen for a number of years now, and I would absolutely love to live that close to such a nice ski resort. Sadly, my job is down here, so I have to join the conga line heading up I-70 most weekends in the winter

(At least we have Eldora, for those days when I really don't want to go up 70)

[stugray]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Really? I live in Boulder, and I can't count how many times that has happened.

then you know the day I was talking about thurs 65, not ANY snow on the ground, sunny, previous day above 50 & sunny then 25 deg by 8 PM..... Ok sure that happens all the time...

The Hwy was 66 on the north side of Longmont,
I think the windchill blowing east froze it when the other roads were barely even slushy.