Ticket for loud exhaust in Toronto?

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by krayzie

These pigs are really just employed as revenue generators for the gov.

Whoa now.

[1Cor10:23]

Curious to know how many law enforcement officers have a Twin

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by RFB

The Ontario Highway Traffic Act does not contain a charge of loud exhaust.

What is used by the tailight chasers is UNNECESSARY NOISE which can be caused by squeeling tires , a loud stereo , or a loud exhaust.

If you rev your stock exhaust you can be charged. All that is needed to be proven to the J.P. in court is that the motor vehicle noise was UNNECESSARY.

If you have a straight pipe and don't make any noise you are good to go.(hard to do above idle).

But I believe you can be nailed with no muffler LOL !

There is a charge for an improper muffler, which is 100% the officer's discretion. Even if it's not loud, they can give you a ticket for it.

[KPDoubleX]

Originally Posted by wparsons

There is a charge for an improper muffler, which is 100% the officer's discretion. Even if it's not loud, they can give you a ticket for it.

Yep! But it was easy to fight in court!

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23

Curious to know how many law enforcement officers have a Twin

There's something called professional courtesy, flash the badge and get let go with maybe a warning or a pat at the back.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by KPDoubleX

Yep! But it was easy to fight in court!

The tax collectors have to PROVE it was improper - hard to do nowadays - (Evidence required).

In the old days it was simple - they put a pencil in your ass and if they didn't feel a baffle - conviction registered -

It was a great harassment tool for the biker bandits.



CEREBRUS

[RFB]

Originally Posted by krayzie

There's something called professional courtesy, flash the badge and get let go with maybe a warning or a pat at the back.

That was when cops were honourable men. Not any more.

The police are now run by politicians, not by the police dept, so political correctness rules.

Nowadays promotion is measured by how eager the cop is to charge other cops .

The old guard (called dead wood) didn't play that game but they are all retired now.




CERBEUS

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by KPDoubleX

Yep! But it was easy to fight in court!

Have you actually beat one in court with a non stock exhaust? I don't know anyone that has been successful without it being a stock car (SRT4), or by swapping back to stock to have the charge dropped then swapping back out after the court date.

Originally Posted by RFB

The tax collectors have to PROVE it was improper - hard to do nowadays - (Evidence required).

In the old days it was simple - they put a pencil in your ass and if they didn't feel a baffle - conviction registered -

It was a great harassment tool for the biker bandits.

Unless something has changed in the last couple years, that's not the case at all. If it's not stock and you got a ticket, it was pretty much impossible to beat the charge. My brother had a letter from the manufacturer stating that the exhaust on his car met db limits all over the place and the judge simply asked "is it stock or an OEM replacement?", "then the charge sticks".

[fenixv8]

I did this with my sister's car as well but i just sent her to the court date. YOu can either be silly and change the exhaust back to stock and show them a reciept or something which is stupid because i would never pay to have that done when i could do it myself.

What I did was have a picture of your car with a camera and digital date stamp it with stock and the licence plate and show it in court. Or you could just put your plate on a stock car like yours and use that.

[1Cor10:23]

Wait, so they're willing to drop the charge if you switch back to stock after the fact?

[RFB]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Have you actually beat one in court with a non stock exhaust? I don't know anyone that has been successful without it being a stock car (SRT4), or by swapping back to stock to have the charge dropped then swapping back out after the court date.


"Originally Posted by RFB
The tax collectors have to PROVE it was improper - hard to do nowadays - (Evidence required).

In the old days it was simple - they put a pencil in your ass and if they didn't feel a baffle - conviction registered -

It was a great harassment tool for the biker bandits."



Unless something has changed in the last couple years, that's not the case at all. If it's not stock and you got a ticket, it was pretty much impossible to beat the charge. My brother had a letter from the manufacturer stating that the exhaust on his car met db limits all over the place and the judge simply asked "is it stock or an OEM replacement?", "then the charge sticks".

The j.p.'s ruling was correct if your brother was charged with "unnecessary noise".

If however he was charged with "improper muffler" there has to be evidence to prove the charge. What was that evidence ? (as defined in the following law) -

H.T.A. 75.1 - Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1).

"OEM replacement" is not evidence unless it is proven in court that it is as above.

It is not impossible to beat the charge with a non stock aftermarket exhaust.

If there is no muffler (straight pipe) you are toast.
If the straight pipe has a baffle you are good to go (unless you make noise or excessive smoke), hence "unnecessary noise".

All other aftermarket exhausts are legal.

You may not have received all the facts from your brother.




CERBERUS

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23

Wait, so they're willing to drop the charge if you switch back to stock after the fact?

Not always, especially if it isn't your first improper muffler ticket in the same car.

Originally Posted by RFB

The j.p.'s ruling was correct if your brother was charged with "unnecessary noise".

If however he was charged with "improper muffler" there has to be evidence to prove the charge. What was that evidence ? (as defined in the following law) -

H.T.A. 75.1 - Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1).

"OEM replacement" is not evidence unless it is proven in court that it is as above.

It is not impossible to beat the charge with a non stock aftermarket exhaust.

If there is no muffler (straight pipe) you are toast.
If the straight pipe has a baffle you are good to go (unless you make noise or excessive smoke), hence "unnecessary noise".

All other aftermarket exhausts are legal.

You may not have received all the facts from your brother.

The bolded part is the key, the charge is 100% up to the discretion of the officer and their interpretation of what excessive means. You can have a loud baffled exhaust (think flowmaster super 40, etc) and be ticketed (and lose in court), or have a quiet straight through and not ever be ticketed (especially with a turbo car). The unfortunate part of the law as it's written is there is no limit defined.

You might get lucky in court showing how quiet it really is, but it's no guarantee you'll get off just because you have a baffled muffler.

I definitely have the facts right from my brother, I was sitting there in the court room when it happened

[Jason@DSG]

I've been pretty lucky in Montreal so far. Most of my buddies with EvoX's in TO don't seem to have any issues so as long as you get a reasonable exhaust setup + drive reasonably around the city, I wouldn't worry too much.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Not always, especially if it isn't your first improper muffler ticket in the same car.

H.T.A. 75.1 - Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1).


The bolded part is the key, the charge is 100% up to the discretion of the officer and their interpretation of what excessive means. You can have a loud baffled exhaust (think flowmaster super 40, etc) and be ticketed (and lose in court), or have a quiet straight through and not ever be ticketed (especially with a turbo car). The unfortunate part of the law as it's written is there is no limit defined.

You might get lucky in court showing how quiet it really is, but it's no guarantee you'll get off just because you have a baffled muffler.

I definitely have the facts right from my brother, I was sitting there in the court room when it happened

The key is still in the "points to prove" in this section.
The cop proved the muffler was faulty by offering "opinion evidence" which the J.P. accepted.

The time honoured practice of bringing a signed bill of a qualified licensed mechanic stating the muffler was in proper working order negates the cop's evidence and the charge is beaten.
Decibel levels etc. is not substantive evidence under the "points to prove" under this section, only "a muffler in good working orderto prevent excessive and unusual noise".

Now that doesnt mean that the J.P. had his roids enflamed, had a fight with his wife etc. and forgot his training on the rules of evidence i.e."factual evidence overrules opinion evidence" etc., especially from an expert witness (unless the cop was a licensed mechanic also) and registers a guilty verdict.

In that case you have the satisfaction of spending a little money to shame him before his peers and bosses when he loses the appeal.
He also will have less chance of promotion in future due to incompetence.





CERBERUS