Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[dbrandt01]

I personally find that a slower shift makes it smoother. That on top of as the above post said about rolling off the clutch. What I mean by slower shift, just nice and slow not like a fast and furious shift where you just jam it down. At least it's how my dad taught me when I got this car 8 months ago.

I don't notice the rough shifts except for when I just get started in the mornings when I drive. Maybe the shift knob has a played a roll in that, but it seems like 1-2 and 2-3 are where I feel it in the first few minutes of driving. Can't give a definite answer, not sure on it.

[SirBrass]

Smooth shifts means smooth pedal engagement and disengagement also, between throttle and clutch (one of the reasons I hate a non-linear dbw throttle with dead space at the top), you declutch to the engagement point, and smoothly let out from there, with enough throttle application to hold the revs AFTER you rev match.

The key to smooth is to hold engine rpms as smoothly as possible through the clutch disengagement to reengagement process. Rev matching helps here massively.

Your grip on the shifter matters nill. The shifter only changes the gear selection, and the smoothness comes after gears are changed, so it's all in your pedal control to control throttle and clutch.

Think of it as a balancing act where you know where your revs are going to be after clutch reengagement in your newly selected gear, and you blip throttle to get as close to that as you can and hold that rev through the re-engagement. Motion of the car will keep the transmission spinning at the right speed after the new gear is selected, so you only need control the engine flywheel speed to mate up with that.

The closer you get to that when the clutch reengages, the less jolts (if any) that you'll feel. Your throttle pedal IS your engine to transmission synchro, effectively.

Balance and smooth. Then you just have to practice this. You'll fail at first, but then you'll have instances where you suddenly feel what smooth means and you'll start to learn how smooth should feel and your feet will begin to learn how to do that.

It's all about the downshifts. Upshifts are smooth by nature, as the engine is slowed down as it naturally wants to, so it smoothly upshifts. It's the downshifts which are harder, b/c left to itself, the engine will be forced to speed up (which it doesn't want to), and will resist it some, which slows down the process and that unbalances things and you feel the car lurch as the engine resists, speeds up, and your speed on the road drops. It's more pronounced in AWD cars as you'll get more driveline shock that way.

On starts, it's also about balancing, as you need to bring the engine speed up to where it will still have sufficient torque to pull the car from a dead stop when the clutch re-engages. Bring your revs up and smoothly let out, just like on a downshift, but you may slow down the clutch re-engagement and lightly slip it as the car gets going, then continue to let out the pedal smoothly once you have felt the car grab enough of the road sufficiently. Smooth, smooth, smooth here. Otherwise you're going to get jerked around or stall.

The only way to get this right is to go out and work at it in normal driving.

Edit: Here's an easy mantra to remember. It is taught when teaching folks how to safely draw a loaded firearm to full presentation quickly: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. You don't TRY and be slow or fast, you try and be SMOOTH. Be smooth, and stay smooth, and then try to be smooth a little quicker but no quicker than you can maintain smoothness. Effectively: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. This applies to drawing a firearm for real-world OH SHIT defensive use, shooting competition where you have to draw from the holster, autoX, street driving, typing on a keyboard, juggling, effectively anything that requires swift, precise, coordinated movement (for some of these things: under high stress when your fine dexterity suddenly takes a vacation and all you're left with is your gross dexterity).

Say it to yourself all the time when you feel impatient or even when you don't feel impatient: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Be smooth.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by Manic

Apart from rolling off the clutch smoothly, all I can think of to make your shifts smoother is to progressively get faster with every motion. When shifting up, the faster you do it, while still being smooth, the more fluid the shift is.

Also, I've noticed that while shifting from 4th to 5th, I do get a little hung up. Not quite sure why, but it tends to slow down my shift which lets my revs drop a little lower than I like. As of late, instead of trying to "draw" that zig zag pattern from 4th to 5th, I just push to the right and upwards as if it were a straight diagonal line. This seems to help a bit.

Makes sense, since 4th to 5th is the longest throw. Depending on your seating position, you may have to really "reach" for it, and since your pushing away from your body, it takes even longer. Going straight across is definitely faster than zig-zagging, and minimizes the chance that you'll get "stuck" between gates (I do it alot going from 5th to 4th)

[calidus]

Occasionally when I shift up gears, I feel resistance against moving the shifter. I can't duplicate it consistently and I am always pushing the clutch all the way to the floor. I would say it happens 1 out of every 25 shifts. I tends to be between 1-2 mostly but has happened between 2-3 and 3-4 as well. I am paranoid that I am some how destroying my transmission. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this just a normal part of driving manual?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by calidus

Occasionally when I shift up gears, I feel resistance against moving the shifter.

Yes, and that's normal.

When the gearbox oil is cold and thick, like molasses, the resistance is substantial. You'll feel this most when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear. That's because the percentage difference between those two ratios is larger than between any other two gears in the transmission. There is a 40% drop in the ratio as one shifts up to 2nd. It's about 30% from 2nd to 3rd, and the remaining gears are around 20% difference, so they tend to be easier to shift.

As the gearbox oil rises to normal operating temperature, the shifts become easier and you will feel less resistance.

One of the reasons you feel varying resistance when shifting, even after the oil is warmed up, is probably attributable to your shifting speed, or your timing, how fast you move the shift lever into the next gear. It also depends on the rpms you're shifting at; it's sort of a moving target. It is not the same, say, 1200 rpm drop in each gear at all rpms when shifting. It's a percentage difference depending on the rpms at which you shift.

It's hard to explain without writing a short book.

I am paranoid that I am some how destroying my transmission. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this just a normal part of driving manual?

I understand. But, from what you've explained, rest assured that you're not destroying your transmission, you're not doing anything wrong, and it's all normal. What you're feeling is not an indicator of damage or a problem. It's normal.

Here, try this:

Try pausing for a varying amount of time in the center of the shift "gate." Make your shift a two-step motion, click ... click, as you shift from, say 3rd to 4th. De-clutch, move the lever from 3rd to the center, pause ever so slightly, then click into 4th. Engage the clutch smoothly, not abruptly. AND, while engaging the clutch begin feeding in some throttle so that your engine rpms are raised to what's required for that next gear at that road speed. Do NOT wait until after fully engaging the clutch to re-apply throttle. Begin feeding in throttle -- smoothly, it's not a switch! -- right as you begin to lift your clutch pedal, engaging the clutch.

It takes practice to get your hands and feet coordinated to do this well.

I strive to make it all SEAMLESS. Strive to achieve seamlessly smooth shifts. Your clutch and gearbox should last forever.

When you execute a perfect shift, it will be smoother than any automatic. A passenger won't even realize you shifted if she wasn't watching your hand and listening to the engine. Is that cool, or what?

And your car will love you. Be kind to your machinery, and it will take good care of you.

Vary the timing. When you've got it timed perfectly, you will be rewarded with an effortless drop into the next gear. Your car will love you. True, this will make you slow in a drag race, but this is for finding the "natural rhythm" of your gearbox.

Does this make sense?

Try it, varying your timing, and when you "get it," you'll see. Then come back and tell me about it.

You're not slamming the shift lever into the next gear, are you?

I like the fact that you're showing sensitivity to the machinery. You're feeling things many (most?) drivers ignore. I like that; I'm impressed.

Good job, kiddo!

[calidus]

Thanks that does make sense. The most annoying part is my inconsistency, I get those perfectly smooth shifts and I just fist pump while driving. Then I get some really jerky ones and I just go ugh. Practice Practice Practice I guess

I learned another very important lesson over the weekend, I can't pay attention to two girls talking in my car and drive stick.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by calidus

Thanks that does make sense. The most annoying part is my inconsistency, I get those perfectly smooth shifts and I just fist pump while driving. Then I get some really jerky ones and I just go ugh. Practice Practice Practice I guess

I learned another very important lesson over the weekend, I can't pay attention to two girls talking in my car and drive stick.

Master this car, and I predict that you will find every car for the rest of your life will almost certainly be a cinch to shift smoothly.

Our S2000, and our Mazdaspeed3 are ridiculously easy to shift after driving our BRZ.

I think it probably has something to do with the drive-by-wire throttle response on our BRZ, because both my wife and I have found this car to be the most difficult car to master since our 1983 GTi (the original pocket rocket).

Keep working at it, and perhaps try my suggestions, and you'll get it eventually. Just know that you're finding it difficult because it IS difficult on the twins.

It's not difficult to simply shift, to change gears, it's difficult in the BRZ to nail that perfect, seamless shift, whereas in other cars it's comparatively easy.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by calidus

I learned another very important lesson over the weekend, I can't pay attention to two girls talking in my car and drive stick.

Yeah. I treat driving as a full-time job requiring my complete, undivided attention. Trying to pay attention to -- did you say TWO?! -- girls in the car could result in stuffing it into the wall.

Eees no good, don do eeet.

[Vides990]

I can't believe this thread exists, and that it made it to 8 pages.....

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by Vides990

I can't believe this thread exists, and that it made it to 8 pages.....

I know right! We were all born with the knowledge to drive stick perfectly like race car drivers.

[calidus]

Originally Posted by Vides990

I can't believe this thread exists, and that it made it to 8 pages.....

Socially inept 20 something engineers have to do something to impressive girls.

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

I know right! We were all born with the knowledge to drive stick perfectly like race car drivers.

LOL so go out and practice instead of talking about it. Not that difficult.....

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by calidus

Socially inept 20 something engineers have to do something to impressive girls.

If you're using cars to try and pick up women, you're 1) failing and 2) picked the wrong vehicle.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

I know right! We were all born with the knowledge to drive stick perfectly like race car drivers.

Thank you for this, subiestyle.

And now, if I may just use your post as a springboard to say the following...

Many of the readers in these forums are new to manual transmissions. They may lack access to family or friends with MT cars who might be willing to take the time to teach them.

Some new learners even erase their clutches over a weekend. Unusual, yes, but it happens. Many more drivers unwittingly expose their clutches, gearboxes, etc. to undue wear attributable to poor technique. That may go on for a lifetime.

Some instruction might have prevented that.

I respect those who seek advice from others with experience when they undertake to learn a new and often challenging skill.

I readily seek to learn from others. I'll take all the help I can get. I'm old and just haven't got the time to re-invent the wheel myself, you know?

Where better to seek advice than here on the forums?

I'm confident that this thread, and others like it, serve a far greater population than just the OP.

Now, some will settle for simply learning how to change gears so that they might progress from point A to point B in their MT car. There's nothing wrong with that. For them the car is a tool and they probably do not see their car as an end in itself.

Others pursue the finer points and seek to perfect their skills, finding satisfaction and even joy in driving. Pure driving, just for oneself, independent of all the other issues surrounding automobiles. @calidus appears to be one of these good fellows.

I realize that not everyone shares my approach, but it's clear that calidus and some others do... The better I master something, the better I appreciate and enjoy it. This has nothing to do with anyone else, it's not competitive with anyone else. I'm competitive with myself, striving to be as good as I can be, mastering my machine as best I can. I derive satisfaction from that. Now, @calidus pumps his fist when he nails it. Yeah... a kindred spirit.

I'm not an elitist, perpetually in competition with my fellow man, clawing, scratching, and biting, constantly striving for ascendancy in the wolf pack.

I derive satisfaction from helping others learn and seeing them get to be as good as me, or even better.

It's a pleasure for me to help @calidus and all the others out there who might benefit from my efforts to share.

Who knows how many readers out there have silently thanked @calidus for asking these questions, questions that they, too, had but were reluctant to ask. Perhaps their reluctance stemmed from fear of being derided and scorned as beginners so often are on these and other forums. That's a shame that they don't feel safe and free to ask.

Answering questions like these is my way of repaying the community for what I learn in the technical forums for each of our cars, about problems to watch for, and solutions to those problems.

Threads such as these are "Value Added!" To me, threads such as these are part of the lifeblood of forums.