question about cylinder walls(sleeves) - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

carbonBLUE · 03-16-2012, 06:22 AM

whats material is the walls made of?

wondering if they are aluminum, steel or MMC(metal matrix composite)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_matrix_composite for those who are unaware of MMC

a few cars use it, toyota uses it in the 2zz-ge , 911's use it aswell

MMC would mean the cylinder walls wont have the ability to be bored or honed

arghx7 · 03-16-2012, 01:24 PM

Can we confirm that it's sleeved? They could have sprayed on a liner. Certain high-end engines are doing that.

WingsofWar · 03-16-2012, 08:18 PM

the FA20 is Open Deck, unsleeved, and from my guess aluminum although I can't confirm the materials right now.

carbonBLUE · 03-17-2012, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

the FA20 is Open Deck, unsleeved, and from my guess aluminum although I can't confirm the materials right now.

the 2zz-ge is unsleeved, MMC material, at a NA tuner, it would be beneficial if it were MMC, adding boost would be ok too, less friction is always awesome

Esoteric · 04-02-2012, 12:52 PM

I am curious about this as well.

I'm happy with the durability of ductle-Iron sleeved aluminum blocks. Lots of experience with this setup has shown nothing but great results.

It's a little taxing for the end user to have to pay for these to go into the block that wasn't factory fitted however.
I hope the bore is NOT coated with a nikasil type coating, as said was meantioned about certain cylinder bores- these render the block unable to be bored and honed if the coating is damaged.

Looking forward to getting our hands on one of these guys

carbonBLUE · 04-02-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I am curious about this as well.

I'm happy with the durability of ductle-Iron sleeved aluminum blocks. Lots of experience with this setup has shown nothing but great results.

It's a little taxing for the end user to have to pay for these to go into the block that wasn't factory fitted however.
I hope the bore is NOT coated with a nikasil type coating, as said was meantioned about certain cylinder bores- these render the block unable to be bored and honed if the coating is damaged.

Looking forward to getting our hands on one of these guys

yeah im waiting to get my hands on the repair manual, usually it lists everything in there

Crashoverride · 04-02-2012, 01:29 PM

yeah, I'm also waiting on the TSRM, once I get it, a scanner and PDF converter I will share it with the forum.

GrimmSpeed · 04-02-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashoverride

yeah, I'm also waiting on the TSRM, once I get it, a scanner and PDF converter I will share it with the forum.

Thanks in advance...that sounds like a lot of work.

Justin

old greg · 04-02-2012, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashoverride

yeah, I'm also waiting on the TSRM, once I get it, a scanner and PDF converter I will share it with the forum.

You might just want to take it to Office Depot, Staples etc. and have them scan it for you. At the very least call around and get a few quotes, because it will save you a whole lot of time.

Sully · 04-02-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old greg

You might just want to take it to Office Depot, Staples etc. and have them scan it for you. At the very least call around and get a few quotes, because it will save you a whole lot of time.

Seriously.

mrtodd · 04-02-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I am curious about this as well.

I'm happy with the durability of ductle-Iron sleeved aluminum blocks. Lots of experience with this setup has shown nothing but great results.

It's a little taxing for the end user to have to pay for these to go into the block that wasn't factory fitted however.
I hope the bore is NOT coated with a nikasil type coating, as said was meantioned about certain cylinder bores- these render the block unable to be bored and honed if the coating is damaged.

Looking forward to getting our hands on one of these guys

x2!

3MI Racing · 04-13-2012, 03:36 PM

I'm willing to be it'll be Subaru's typical cast in liner ('sleeve').

I can post some pictures of the details on it when I get back home. I don't have them on this computer, though they may be on the 3MI Racing facebook...which I badly need to update

Just an FYI, you can bore/hone MMC but it requires special tooling. Like all MMC's, they require high speed tooling or you get chatter.

-Micah
'Homemade WRX'

carbonBLUE · 04-13-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3MI Racing

I'm willing to be it'll be Subaru's typical cast in liner ('sleeve').

I can post some pictures of the details on it when I get back home. I don't have them on this computer, though they may be on the 3MI Racing facebook...which I badly need to update

Just an FYI, you can bore/hone MMC but it requires special tooling. Like all MMC's, they require high speed tooling or you get chatter.

-Micah
'Homemade WRX'

i understand that but there isnt a lot of shops around my area that specialize in doing that.... which really sucks...

03-16-2012, 06:22 AM	#1
carbonBLUE Reverse Burnouts Join Date: Oct 2011 Drives: 2013 Argento FRS Location: dallas!!! Posts: 2,894 Thanks: 707 Thanked 1,257 Times in 592 Posts Mentioned: 30 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	question about cylinder walls(sleeves) whats material is the walls made of? wondering if they are aluminum, steel or MMC(metal matrix composite) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_matrix_composite for those who are unaware of MMC a few cars use it, toyota uses it in the 2zz-ge , 911's use it aswell MMC would mean the cylinder walls wont have the ability to be bored or honed __________________ 2000 Carbon Blue Toyota Celica GTS 152000 miles (wont forget you) 2013 Argento Scion FR-S 2011 Infiniti G37x

03-16-2012, 08:18 PM	#3
WingsofWar MODERATOR-SAMA Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: Swagtron Scooter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,685 Thanks: 345 Thanked 1,562 Times in 524 Posts Mentioned: 81 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	the FA20 is Open Deck, unsleeved, and from my guess aluminum although I can't confirm the materials right now. __________________

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03-16-2012, 01:24 PM	#2
arghx7 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: car Location: cold Posts: 599 Thanks: 72 Thanked 611 Times in 185 Posts Mentioned: 33 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Can we confirm that it's sleeved? They could have sprayed on a liner. Certain high-end engines are doing that.

04-02-2012, 12:52 PM	#5
Esoteric Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: FR-S\|(2)AE86\|TA22\|E30M3\|E36M3\|BPLeg Location: Philadelphia Posts: 172 Thanks: 10 Thanked 74 Times in 36 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I am curious about this as well. I'm happy with the durability of ductle-Iron sleeved aluminum blocks. Lots of experience with this setup has shown nothing but great results. It's a little taxing for the end user to have to pay for these to go into the block that wasn't factory fitted however. I hope the bore is NOT coated with a nikasil type coating, as said was meantioned about certain cylinder bores- these render the block unable to be bored and honed if the coating is damaged. Looking forward to getting our hands on one of these guys

04-02-2012, 01:29 PM	#7
Crashoverride here, there, any where Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: FR-S SOON!!! Location: Driver seat Posts: 287 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	yeah, I'm also waiting on the TSRM, once I get it, a scanner and PDF converter I will share it with the forum.

04-13-2012, 03:36 PM	#12
3MI Racing Pro Subie Engine Nerd Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: empty spot for an FR-S/BRZ Location: Virginia Posts: 96 Thanks: 8 Thanked 36 Times in 19 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I'm willing to be it'll be Subaru's typical cast in liner ('sleeve'). I can post some pictures of the details on it when I get back home. I don't have them on this computer, though they may be on the 3MI Racing facebook...which I badly need to update Just an FYI, you can bore/hone MMC but it requires special tooling. Like all MMC's, they require high speed tooling or you get chatter. -Micah 'Homemade WRX'

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