Tuner-noob needs header advice

[Malt]

Originally Posted by g0ast

Ok so I heard that an OFT is ok but not as good as a normal tune like ECUTek. I have no clue about the differences or whats the better option, and I'm terrified of making a mistake and f*cking up my engine or fuel economy or whatever.

What exactly does the OFT do and things like "1.55b stg 2 uel" mean? I had the same feeling I did when I went to my first day of Pre-Calc when I see stuff like that...

In the end I just want more power with little loss of fuel economy and sound good, too. In the simplest and less risky way possible.

BTW I have an Injen short ram intake and Invidia N1 cat-back exhaust already on the car if that makes any difference in what I do tune wise.

Oh and is it necessary to get a tune with new headers? I'm assuming the benefit is higher but do you tune because of the headers or tune because of the performance increase? If I could, I'd rather just get headers and when I feel like it get a tune when I get a better idea what I want.

You've heard that OFT isn't as good as a "real" tune like ecutek? They are both real tunes, just one has more options catered around swapping over to SD tuning and other things "needed" for the 1% that run boost and horsepower levels much higher than stock. If you have no plans on going forced induction in the very near future then there is no real need to go with ecutek. They both are viable and good tuning solutions with features that cater to different markets. Shiv's tunes are the best you are going to get without going to a custom dyno tune from a trusted and experienced tuner.

1.55 Stg 2 UEL means: Version 1.55 stage 2 (used for cars running catless headers) and UEL means unequal length header. The EL tune is for equal length headers.

As also stated by others, I'd get rid of that intake. The vast majority of intakes sold produce no power and some even cause a loss of power. Either way you would need to tune around your intake to ensure proper operation.

Yes you would need a tune to run headers optimally if you don't want a CEL and get the most power safely.

I'd personally recommend getting the OFT and OFH header combo. There is nothing out there at that price point that comes even remotely close to the improvements in power and drive-ability you get with this combo.

Originally Posted by hamzam

DUDE..... OpenFlashTablet, no questions about it.

IMO, just because the tunes are "free" makes it better than ECUTEK.

You will have more power and your fuel economy will go up.

It has datalogging.

It has a live display of Throttle/Ign. Timing/Exh. Cam Timing/ Etc....

You will buy the OFT and you will love the OFT.

Also, look at my thread in this section to see what exactly the OFT is capable of.

Free, unfortunately does not equate to better. OFT is tailored to suit a different market than ecutek at this point in time. You could just as easily flash shiv's free tunes with other flashing options and get all the benefits of his tunes. That is not what makes the OFT great. Its the combination of logging, ease of use, and easy resellability that make it great. Personally I don't find the live display of stats all that useful given the form factor of the OFT makes it difficult to mount/see. I find a smart phone running torque with a bluetooth ODBII module adequate until I need to actually log information that I can't get through the bluetooth module.

As for your claims of improved mileage as well as increased power, what are you basing that on? I would disagree with the increase in mileage aspect of that claim but I'd love to see any evidence you have to prove your assertion.

[hamzam]

Originally Posted by Malt

Free, unfortunately does not equate to better. OFT is tailored to suit a different market than ecutek at this point in time. You could just as easily flash shiv's free tunes with other flashing options and get all the benefits of his tunes. That is not what makes the OFT great. Its the combination of logging, ease of use, and easy resellability that make it great. Personally I don't find the live display of stats all that useful given the form factor of the OFT makes it difficult to mount/see. I find a smart phone running torque with a bluetooth ODBII module adequate until I need to actually log information that I can't get through the bluetooth module.

As for your claims of improved mileage as well as increased power, what are you basing that on? I would disagree with the increase in mileage aspect of that claim but I'd love to see any evidence you have to prove your assertion.

I completely agree, free does not equal better. I have my worries about eventually going FI but for now the OFT does it's job and then some. I like the features of the device more than the actual tunes themselves.

Improved fuel economy is based upon my own experience. I've only had the OFT for a few days but my avg MPG has increased by 2mpg (mostly highway).

As for a power increase, I was running a stock tune before and am inferencing my "increased power" based on other people's similar setups with an OFT. I have no numbers to prove it, but from my own driving experience, there is definitely more power. I go to the dyno in about 2 weeks

[Malt]

Originally Posted by hamzam

I completely agree, free does not equal better. I have my worries about eventually going FI but for now the OFT does it's job and then some. I like the features of the device more than the actual tunes themselves.

Improved fuel economy is based upon my own experience. I've only had the OFT for a few days but my avg MPG has increased by 2mpg (mostly highway).

As for a power increase, I was running a stock tune before and am inferencing my "increased power" based on other people's similar setups with an OFT. I have no numbers to prove it, but from my own driving experience, there is definitely more power. I go to the dyno in about 2 weeks

You'll be pleasantly surprised at how quickly shiv is working on FI tuning for this platform and there will be several FI options available in the near future. Surely it will be ready by the time you plan on going FI if you do so/

I'm not arguing that there is an increase in power, I'm running a Stg2 UEL tune atm and I've run his E85 Stg2 tune as well. There is definitely power there. What is in debate is the improvement in mpg's. Are you basing this off what the dash readout is or are you manually calculating the mileage? The way shiv adjusts the fueling in his tunes causes the in dash readout of mileage to be inaccurate.

I'm all for singing the praises of Shiv, Vishnu Tuning, and the Open Flash line but I'd rather not inadvertently mislead people with claims that are not accurate. Any mileage gains you've gotten are most likely attributable to a change in how you are driving the car and not the tune. A simple comparison to the fueling tables from a Stg 2 to compared to stock will show you that it is indeed using more fuel than stock. That doesn't change the fact that the OFT is a great product, just that its not some magical product that defy the laws of science.

[krulux]

MPG is a concern for some.. and to me as well, to a certain extent. I've saw less MPG's since moving to the OFT... but it has nothing to do with the device or the tune in general.

The reason I see less is because, since freeing this engine with the OFT and OFH, I keep my foot planted heavy on the throttle and the rpm's high. I'm sure this is in-line with the spirit of how this car was designed and intended to be driven.

[protpibe]

If your ultimate goal is power and increased torque, you can't beat the value you're getting with the Open Flash header + Tune.

If you just care about the UEL sound and want to keep it under $800, then I would suggest the Borla uel header. You can get that installed for less than $800, but you'll eventually get a CEL and the power gains of ditching your main cat won't be fully realized without a tune (ECUTEK/Open Flash)

[hakkoo]

I'd go OFT + OFH or JDL UEL depending on your budget. (maybe go OFH + Overpipe or front pipe if you dont have one yet)
If you ever want to go FI in the future you can always sell the OFT and get which ever system that your local tuner is familiar with.

[enwave]

The benefit to OFT+OFH is flexibility of tunes. The benefit to JDL header is flex joints. The benefit to Borla is big retailer/warranty system.

I went OFH+OFT once they said they would be working with boost (Phantom ESC and Vortech are the first victims). My header should be delivered this week, and I love the OFT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hakkoo]

Originally Posted by enwave

The benefit to OFT+OFH is flexibility of tunes. The benefit to JDL header is flex joints. The benefit to Borla is big retailer/warranty system.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can still run OFT with JDL and JDL offers Life time warranty, so win win win going JDL (if its in your budget)

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by g0ast

Apparently I want an UEL so it sounds like a Boxer should sound (don't know what a Boxer sounds like compared to a normal car though!)

My 2 cents, if you don't know what a typical subaru boxer sounds like, how do you know you want it?

IMO an EL header is a better bet, but that's just my take on it.

[g0ast]

Originally Posted by Malt

You've heard that OFT isn't as good as a "real" tune like ecutek? They are both real tunes, just one has more options catered around swapping over to SD tuning and other things "needed" for the 1% that run boost and horsepower levels much higher than stock. If you have no plans on going forced induction in the very near future then there is no real need to go with ecutek. They both are viable and good tuning solutions with features that cater to different markets. Shiv's tunes are the best you are going to get without going to a custom dyno tune from a trusted and experienced tuner.

1.55 Stg 2 UEL means: Version 1.55 stage 2 (used for cars running catless headers) and UEL means unequal length header. The EL tune is for equal length headers.

As also stated by others, I'd get rid of that intake. The vast majority of intakes sold produce no power and some even cause a loss of power. Either way you would need to tune around your intake to ensure proper operation.

Yes you would need a tune to run headers optimally if you don't want a CEL and get the most power safely.

I'd personally recommend getting the OFT and OFH header combo. There is nothing out there at that price point that comes even remotely close to the improvements in power and drive-ability you get with this combo.

That cleared up the ECUTek stuff, I just know more serious enthusiasts use ECUTek so I figured it's better, I didn't account that it also has more paramaters you could change, especially if you're going FI (which I never will with this car).

Can you or someone explain why I should get rid of the intake? I rather like the look of it (especially compared to the stock intake), considering I also show the car. I do know there are some intakes that actually decrease power or whatever but from what I heard, the Injen is not one of them. What's different between having the stock intake vs aftermarket and having an aftermarket header/tune?

Originally Posted by enwave

The benefit to OFT+OFH is flexibility of tunes. The benefit to JDL header is flex joints. The benefit to Borla is big retailer/warranty system.

Thanks for the summary!

Originally Posted by wparsons

My 2 cents, if you don't know what a typical subaru boxer sounds like, how do you know you want it?

IMO an EL header is a better bet, but that's just my take on it.

I only actually discovered a few days ago the stock headers in the BRZ were EL headers, I thought this whole time my car sounded like a boxer engine because I assumed it used UEL stock, now I'm confused as f*ck cause I really don't know what a boxer engine sounds like with UEL, and I like the EL sound from the stock headers so I'm wondering what it'll sound like if I go UEL.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by g0ast

That cleared up the ECUTek stuff, I just know more serious enthusiasts use ECUTek so I figured it's better, I didn't account that it also has more paramaters you could change, especially if you're going FI (which I never will with this car).

Can you or someone explain why I should get rid of the intake? I rather like the look of it (especially compared to the stock intake), considering I also show the car. I do know there are some intakes that actually decrease power or whatever but from what I heard, the Injen is not one of them. What's different between having the stock intake vs aftermarket and having an aftermarket header/tune?



Thanks for the summary!



I only actually discovered a few days ago the stock headers in the BRZ were EL headers, I thought this whole time my car sounded like a boxer engine because I assumed it used UEL stock, now I'm confused as f*ck cause I really don't know what a boxer engine sounds like with UEL, and I like the EL sound from the stock headers so I'm wondering what it'll sound like if I go UEL.

All of shiv's tunes are based on the stock intake. If you wanted to keep your intake I'd suggest getting it tuned by a professional instead of running an off the shelf tune. The problem with intakes is that they move the location of the MAF sensor and it may not be reading the incoming air flow the same way that the stock intake was unless you tune the car around the scaling for that intake. This may cause the the car to run leaner or richer than intended if you run an intake without a tune. To further compound these problems, most intakes are so poorly designed that you can never get accurate flow readings due to their placement of the MAF sensor. This is why it is recommended to stay with the stock intake unless you need a bigger diameter MAF housing. You could of course swap over to a SD setup with ecutek and eliminate that problem but that is way more money and completely overkill than what is necessary for a NA car.

You may like the look of the intake but unless you tune for the changes in the MAF reading, you may be running unsafe an AFR which may or may not lead to to multiple issues: lowered power, reduced fuel economy, and potentially engine damage. It should tell you something if Shiv doesn't recommend running an intake because they don't make any power over what the stock intake with a modified snorkel does, but its your car.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by g0ast

I only actually discovered a few days ago the stock headers in the BRZ were EL headers, I thought this whole time my car sounded like a boxer engine because I assumed it used UEL stock, now I'm confused as f*ck cause I really don't know what a boxer engine sounds like with UEL, and I like the EL sound from the stock headers so I'm wondering what it'll sound like if I go UEL.

Every 4 cylinder Subaru before this has UEL manifolds stock, so if you want your car to sound like a typical WRX you want UEL.

This video makes the difference pretty clear:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phf07oHkiZs"]HKS EL full exhaust vs Borla UEL full Exhaust on the Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

[g0ast]

Originally Posted by Malt

All of shiv's tunes are based on the stock intake. If you wanted to keep your intake I'd suggest getting it tuned by a professional instead of running an off the shelf tune. The problem with intakes is that they move the location of the MAF sensor and it may not be reading the incoming air flow the same way that the stock intake was unless you tune the car around the scaling for that intake. This may cause the the car to run leaner or richer than intended if you run an intake without a tune. To further compound these problems, most intakes are so poorly designed that you can never get accurate flow readings due to their placement of the MAF sensor. This is why it is recommended to stay with the stock intake unless you need a bigger diameter MAF housing. You could of course swap over to a SD setup with ecutek and eliminate that problem but that is way more money and completely overkill than what is necessary for a NA car.

You may like the look of the intake but unless you tune for the changes in the MAF reading, you may be running unsafe an AFR which may or may not lead to to multiple issues: lowered power, reduced fuel economy, and potentially engine damage. It should tell you something if Shiv doesn't recommend running an intake because they don't make any power over what the stock intake with a modified snorkel does, but its your car.

But I want my fancy Injen intake! *Tantrum mode on*

What's my best option if I want to keep the Injen intake? I have to get an ECUTek tune? Or is there a tune someone's made using the intake that could be downloaded and used on the OFT? (Is that possible?) Or alternate option, is there a better looking stock intake that doesn't have the bland, incredibly boring look to it?

Thanks for the help btw.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by g0ast

But I want my fancy Injen intake! *Tantrum mode on*

What's my best option if I want to keep the Injen intake? I have to get an ECUTek tune? Or is there a tune someone's made using the intake that could be downloaded and used on the OFT? (Is that possible?) Or alternate option, is there a better looking stock intake that doesn't have the bland, incredibly boring look to it?

Thanks for the help btw.

There isn't an off the shelf tune for ecutek for that particular intake that I'm aware of. So you will need to tune the car around the intake. You can accomplish that yourself if you know how to tune, get an etune, or a dyno tune. All of those options are able to be accomplished with an OFT as well as other tuning options. Shiv offers a etuning service if you wanted to use OFT.