McLaren P1

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Coaster

Astonished by the car. The laf can't outdo it.

Oh trust me, the LaFerrari will be to taking the crown again, it has more power, is ~150kg lighter, has damn near as much downforce and the sound... the sound alone would make me buy it over the P1, and cause any car reviewer to get goosebumps on bottom.

As much as I love the P1 (and I do love it), the F1 imho is still stylistically the best McLaren in terms of design while the Laferrari's is arguably has the best looking Ferrari halo car bar the F40

Every one who's driven the P1 essentially say the same thing, it's an MP4-12C with the view speed up. Controlled, sophisticated, methodical where as the LaFerrari is probably going to be a angrier, more violent, louder version of the Enzo with some 599 GTO insanity mixed in, you know the ride where you stumble out the car thanking baby jesus you didn't die on your route to the supermarket

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you dont have to have a clutch pedal to control over the clutch or clutches. im not really speaking about the car but about how people try to provide rational evidence for irrational opinions. personally i dont like dcts but im not going to provide evidence as to why they are inferior because i dont think thats the case.

He never said anything about which is superior or inferior, only that one option has more involvement.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chulooz

He never said anything about which is superior or inferior, only that one option has more involvement.

i guess my point is that involvement doesnt make for a more driver oriented experience. why not have a pedal you have to press to switch between the gas and brake? why not have a lever to adjust the valve timing? having a clutch pedal or not doesnt seem like a huge deal to me. id much rather try and predict what gear the transmission is going to use rather than guess what the aero or shocks or lsd are doing from a drivers perspective.

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i guess my point is that involvement doesnt make for a more driver oriented experience. why not have a pedal you have to press to switch between the gas and brake? why not have a lever to adjust the valve timing? having a clutch pedal or not doesnt seem like a huge deal to me. id much rather try and predict what gear the transmission is going to use rather than guess what the aero or shocks or lsd are doing from a drivers perspective.

I guess over the course of almost a century (and yes I know early manual transmissions weren't the same as the nice synchronized ones we have today), we have somehow gotten used to the idea of having a manual gear shifter in a sports car.

When 8, 9 and 10 speed transmissions become common, the appeal of shifting might decline, but it is pretty engaging. I don't drive automatics as hard as I do manuals because to me they are designed for getting you from point A to point B.

I think we all accept that automatics have come a long way and know deep down, that they are now just as fast as a manual shift, with similar fuel economy (if not better). They are superior in every way except for excitement. That's why people buy 80's Japanese sports cars - they aren't as refined but they put you in control.



As for the other pedals? Well, have you ever seen a Model T's pedals?



Go ahead and guess what each of those three pedals and the lever are for. I'll wait...





...ready?

The left pedal engages low gear. It needs to be fully depressed to engage the gear. In the middle, it is in neutral. When in neutral, you can push the lever forward, then remove your foot from the left pedal and high gear is engaged.

The center pedal engages reverse gear.

The right pedal engages the engine brake.

So where is the gas pedal, you ask? Good question!



That's right, on the steering wheel. Which means that once you were in gear, you could drive without feet!

And look the way that went. We moved on to bigger and better once we created better transmissions. But damn, that is an engaging transmission. Once you learn how to drive it, you could control it very well. Ford sold 15 million of these things.

The point is, we will lose it eventually and it will only be another page in the history books. But its presence in sports cars is so ubiquitous that we are finding it hard to give it up. One day cars will drive themselves better than we can, and you will definitely have people who miss "manual steering". Soon....soon...

[fatoni]

does this thing have an open diff?

[DarkSunrise]

Damn, what an amazing car. I usually like back-to-basics cars so I'm not the biggest fan of hybrid supercars as a whole, and I'm definitely not a huge fan of the 12c, but this thing is incredible. Gorgeous bodywork, cutting edge technology, relatively lightweight, and it all comes together seamlessly to provide an incredible driving experience. That cannot be an easy task given how complex the foundation of this car is.

Well done McLaren. Your turn, Ferrari.

[UltraFRS]

You forgot the ignition advance on the other side of the steering wheel!

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I guess over the course of almost a century (and yes I know early manual transmissions weren't the same as the nice synchronized ones we have today), we have somehow gotten used to the idea of having a manual gear shifter in a sports car.

When 8, 9 and 10 speed transmissions become common, the appeal of shifting might decline, but it is pretty engaging. I don't drive automatics as hard as I do manuals because to me they are designed for getting you from point A to point B.

I think we all accept that automatics have come a long way and know deep down, that they are now just as fast as a manual shift, with similar fuel economy (if not better). They are superior in every way except for excitement. That's why people buy 80's Japanese sports cars - they aren't as refined but they put you in control.



As for the other pedals? Well, have you ever seen a Model T's pedals?



Go ahead and guess what each of those three pedals and the lever are for. I'll wait...





...ready?

The left pedal engages low gear. It needs to be fully depressed to engage the gear. In the middle, it is in neutral. When in neutral, you can push the lever forward, then remove your foot from the left pedal and high gear is engaged.

The center pedal engages reverse gear.

The right pedal engages the engine brake.

So where is the gas pedal, you ask? Good question!



That's right, on the steering wheel. Which means that once you were in gear, you could drive without feet!

And look the way that went. We moved on to bigger and better once we created better transmissions. But damn, that is an engaging transmission. Once you learn how to drive it, you could control it very well. Ford sold 15 million of these things.

The point is, we will lose it eventually and it will only be another page in the history books. But its presence in sports cars is so ubiquitous that we are finding it hard to give it up. One day cars will drive themselves better than we can, and you will definitely have people who miss "manual steering". Soon....soon...

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by UltraFRS

You forgot the ignition advance on the other side of the steering wheel!

Yeah...and that the lever also doubled as a parking brake! Maybe if we went back to such manual controls people would be better drivers?

Interesting side note: Henry Ford used the scraps of wood left over during production of the Model T to produce charcoal under the name Kingsford (although the name came later).

Back on topic, the P1 is a modern marvel. When I heard about the Pre-Cog system they designed for the MP4 in order to reduce shift times even further, I was pretty impressed.

Truly, this in the midst of a dying sports car market, dream cars/supercars are reaching new levels of unthinkable power and agility. The way I see it, it's all good!

[Bg8780]

Off topic, sort of. Can we just get a round of applause for how well the /DriveTV crew has been doing the past few seasons. I think back when they first put the Youtube channel together and how far they have come in both content and production value. I think he way he presented the P1 was second to none. Bravo /Drive! Keep it coming!

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Love the looks, the engineering, and the whole car, but I have no doubt it is probably too clinical and mechanical much like the MP4-12C is. Mclaren needs more flair/soul/driver involvement and less engineering and computers in their road cars in my opinion.

(Yes I have driven a MP4-12C as well as a few other super cars).

[CSG Mike]

Oddly enough, I like how the MP4-12C drives. I don't want all the electronics helping me unless it's going to enhance my experience.

A lot of people like the ultra intrusive stability control that lambos have, because it makes them feel like they're pushing the car to the limit all the time.

How many people that talk about these cars have any ACTUAL experience driving a 100k+ car hard?

[DarkSunrise]

Chris Harris is one of the few people in the world who's ever done this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MDTcXGsjuo"]Ferrari F40 v Ferrari F50. Like You've Never Seen Them Before /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

[LBC Por Siempre]

Now did they just say Under 7 minute "RING" time, or did they actually publish a time like Porsche did. McLaren rarely or if ever list their times Around the ring.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by LBC Por Siempre

Now did they just say Under 7 minute "RING" time, or did they actually publish a time like Porsche did. McLaren rarely or if ever list their times Around the ring.

So far, they've just said "under 7 minutes". Porsche is the only one that has a precise time, with video evidence all the way around.